simple setup for H/L neps
 

hi all,

the following setup works for me as of now...used aquarium, water tray, direct sunlight from 1130hrs - 1330hrs...night temperature dropped to 22°c < 25°c, moving water underneath in a pond...neps species....n.diatas and n.chaniana. achieved new growth and pitchering for n. chaniana but not n.diatas, only selected leaves with pitcher:2thumbup:

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/x...n/DSC01036.jpg

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Is this enclosed system? How's your day time temperature inside the terrarium?? I'm worried about "green house effect" and no air circulation/movement.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

may I know how you achieve air circulation?

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

it is actually an 'enclosed' air concept (if it is ever exist)...note that the aquarium is actually upsidedown...therefore there will be air exchange and the water surface below is agitated by the electric submersible water pump....the duo has actually failed to produce new leaves when it was kept with the others under the shed.....after 2 weeks trial, the condition improves tremendously and i sincerely share this with all of you. i actually working on another growing concept and it will soon be exposed here too....*biggrin2* all comments are welcome...

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Wish you good luck... Enclosed system often have problems in the long run (after a few months) in our tropical weather especially your setup is in outdoor exposed to sunlight. Please keep us updated on the progress, thanks for sharing. :1thumbup:

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

dont scare me la....wht do you foresee? my nut bout neps master...? *biggrin2**biggrin2**biggrin2*

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Didn't mean to scare you *biggrin2* but it's better for you to be prepare. I think heat during daytime will be your biggest problem.

IMHO, since your setup is fully enclosed on top and sides, leaving only opening at bottom, it won't be enough for air circulation to get rid of the trapped warm air (since the top and sides are fully enclosed, warm air raised up will have no where to go). That's why the first thing I asked is the temperature during the day time. That's why terrarium can't really work outdoor especially when it's in tropical climate.

On larger scale, like enclosed live stock farm, evaporative cooling will be used (fairly cost effective) to solved this heat problem.

Anyway, you should just go ahead, who knows? You might get a good results since everyone's growing condition is different. Again... Good Luck!! *biggrin2*

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Would be good if you added some holes at the side or the top to increase air circulation. But still, quite a nice setup you have there! Do keep us updated with this terrarium of yours :smile:

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Wow I think I want to try a H/L nep set-up after seeing yours. Keep us updated ya:laugh:Really want to know what happen next!!

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

hmm...noted bout the warm air accumulation...i have noticed that there will be water droplets on the walls of the aquarium during the daytime (due to the water evaporation from the pond) and once the sun has gone (the degree of the sun ray were blocked by the higher surrounding objects) the air is much cooler due to the evaporation.

this setup was done in the month of december last year to date....*biggrin2*

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Hello Kevyn,
Did you compare inside with outside temperature ? how much it drop ?

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

In my opinion i don't think its the cooling thats helping it cos 22-25C isn't much of a difference from our normal LL weather....Its probably the humidity inside the setup thats helping the HL neps

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Just my 2 cents...I've been experimenting with a more 'bare bones' setup to grow H/L CPs and I'd say that the temp doesn't make that much of a difference, but it can be THE difference when it comes to the more extreme H/L plants, at the very least while they are still settling down and adapting to your conditions. My own conditions only drop to around 24-27C, which is even less of a difference from our normal LL weather, but for certain plants like N. villosa and N. aristolochioides which are quite extreme highlanders, they die very, very rapidly under my LL conditions, but with just the small drop which some of you may not even need cooling to obtain, they survive much longer. Since I don't use lighting and air-con destroys my humidity levels, there is only one thing left...temp.

Don't get me wrong though. Humidity makes a HUGE difference and the higher, the better. With higher levels of humidity, even the H/Ls become forgiving of higher temps and unless extremely cranky, can thrive. Many will only pitcher well with high humidity anyway and that in turn leads to more nutrients and better health.

While N. chaniana is a very forgiving plant and can be adapted to LL conditions, N diatas is more on the highland side. It will grow fairly well with just a slight drop in temps, though it does need decent humidity and light levels, or you'll be seeing malformed leaves and pitchers, if any. Given the extremely high humidity you've got, N. hamata might be a good choice actually. Its not very temp cranky and doesn't need extremely high light levels, with just very high humidity it will grow and pitcher well.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

i agree with ken because the temperature is taken with a normal termometer hanging on the shed on a random day without any data accumulation for comparison. let me work it out on the temperature inside and outside for the setting and i will get back to you guys...the other experiment that i am currently running is more on higher humidity level with less/no air exchange.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

thanks for the info and explanation...n. chaniana and n. diatas are the current H/L plant that i had and will try to obtain other H/L to keep, other than n. hamata, any other species that might suits our L/L condition?

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Just a note: N. hamata suits your setup mainly because of the very high humidity. It is not that temp cranky, but needs very high humidity until it gets large. Also, your temps are cooler than normal L/L for sure, while I'm fairly sure hamata will be happy with the cooling, I'm not sure how warm your L/L condition is. Good species to try for your setup would be species around the 1000-1500m range, your chance of success is very high. Species like N. rajah, N. platychila, N. burbidigeae, N. faizaliana, N. vogelii and N. eymae would probably work and they've all got nice pitchers. Cost to obtain is another story, heh.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Oh my god!! N.hamata!! But does high humidity without air circulation kill them?

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Not necessary, Marvin. Nepenthes are humidity lovers. The higher the humidity usually, the more better they grow. For growing highlanders, humidity is one of the MOST important factors. I noticed that my rajah, burbidgeae, maxima and veitchii highlanders didn't really seem to have problems when I forgot to put iced bottles in my HL terrarium set up last time, but one day, when I was testing out my humidity by opening all my terrarium holes.....WHOOSH. Within two days, all my HL neps started to go into suspended growth, with burbidgeae dead first.

I notice though, that lowii is rather picky about temperature. Rajah and maxima can still pitcher under lowland conditions but burbidgeae and veitchii didn't pitcher at all, though they still put out some leaves. Lowii was the first HL nep to die in my terrarium :sad:.

All in all, a HL setup is much more easier if you have high humidity or you can provide it, if you have cooler nights and if you stay in a landed house. Believe me, condos can be very dry and hot during the afternoon.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

I know...it's a painful 40%..ouch.If you put a terrarium in an air-conditioned room will the temp go down as well? Because one time I was using a glass terra and it was like....hot...at night!

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Actually, I used a styrofoam box, which is very useful for keeping the interior of the box cool. UNFORTUNATELY.......if the box heats up, it's very hard to cool it down too :smile:

I think terrariums will work in airconditioned rooms, so long as humidity is maintained.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

so which one died first? burbidgaea or lowii?:confused:

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

it's enclosed tho...Well next time if I am stinking rich and can buy a hamata

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Lowii first, followed by burbidgeae, followed by rajah, followed by veitchii. My maxima till now, still alive. But stuck in a suspended animation :sad:

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

too bad then...your setting didnt work out as a H/L terra:crying:

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Technically speaking, only those setup that utilize somekind of cooling (to maintain below 27C during daytime and achieve minimum 12C or more temperature drop during night time) can be consider as true H/L setup for those H/L nep species and hybrids.

So by only using natural cooling (passive cooling), the most that we can achieve in tropical weather is probably barely close to intermediate level.... Couple this with constant high humidity, it's possible to keep those less finicky H/L neps and most intermediate some what OK but to get it to fluorish (healthy growth, getting nice pitcher to leaves ratio and flowering) is probably very difficult under such condition.

That's my humble view... :shy:

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

robert, you have any H/L and share with us your growing condion?:shy:

i have in mind to actually obtain a second hand f&n drinks chiller like the one you'll see in 7eleven to start a intermediate/ H/L neps project but how many plants u can stuff in? lightings? electricity bill? haiz...just go on and dream la.:tongue:

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Like you, I also dreaming about having a H/L / Intermediate setup... *biggrin2*

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Fauzi once did a HL setup to keep some true ultra HL neps, such as hamata. He simply used styrofoam box with ice bottles.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

if the setup has been successfully keeping ULTRA HL NEPS, why not yours? setup error or human error....sorry for asking bluntly as i treasured each and every plant of mine, rather than killing them and wasting money, i rather not to have them at all cost. i think everyone here would much agreed with me or otherwise....more comments are welcome guys.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Technically, as long as the terrarium can hold coolness and humidity, there isn't much of a SETUP error. I lost my plants because of HUMAN error. Oh, by the way if any of you are planning to use styrofoam boxes, don't remove too much of the box. What I mean is that you cut some parts of the box and instead stick it with plastic to allow light in. If too much of the box is removed, it will lose the capability to keep the temperature lower. It becomes less of an insulator.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Just my take on these species, at least in my experience:
maxima - By far the least cranky of those listed, this one and many of its hybrids can survive and pitcher in lowland conditions. Never had one go into shock before, so not sure about recovery.
veitchii - Even the H/L Veitchiis are not that temp cranky. Smaller or no pitchers if humidity is too low though. Can take a long time to establish, especially if humidity is too low, even the L/L ones.
rajah - This one is strangely heat and humidity resistant when young. With slight cooling, I've never had problems with this one. It even seems to recover from shock quite quickly.
burbidgeae - I've managed to get mine to adapt to an air-con room's crap humidity without any covers/shelter. It even pitchers once in a while. Why once in a while? Because its a very, very slow grower...but at least that means the pitchers last a long time too. I think it doesn't like changes in its growing conditions and takes it very badly, but can be slowly adapted.
lowii - I've had strange experiences with this one. Even from different sources, all the plants I've tried always grow straight to the brink of death...then recover, either via a basal or a lone surviving growing tip. The surviving plant then grows quite slowly, but seems to be able to adapt to air-con humidity. Is probably like burbidgeae in hating a change in growing conditions.


Just my opinion, but to me hamata isn't an ultra HL nep, the lower end of its alt range is only 1400m. Also, its not very demanding temp-wise. Now villosa, that's ultra HL. The distinction between HL and ultra HL may not be a good indication of things either, some ultra HL neps seem less temp cranky than certain HL species. What did happen to Fauzi's hamata tho? Did he manage to get it to produce uppers?

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

It wasn't Fauzi's, he was keeping it for someone to come and pick it up. Thanks for correcting me about hamata's range.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Good try kevyn. Intermediate and H/L neps will pitcher in an enclosed setup with the help of high humidity. A drop in temp at night and high humidity will help to produce bigger pitcher.

see my post
https://forum.petpitcher.net/newthrea...postthread&f=6

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Dear Keyvn

I plan to start off soon and will use following method
a ) a Pump with mist nozzle ,releasing mist every 10 minuets or so with harvested rain water and pump control by electrical timer
b) plant placed at shedded area

And I will buy some pots and propagate form there ,will there be viable ?

if too much humidity ,will harm the plant?

In the past I had tried to propagate but all falied ,and due to lack of knowledge
after visiting this site , not that simple as I thought

Hope to see results as from now

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Dear Keyvn

I plan to start off soon and will use following method
a ) a Pump with mist nozzle ,releasing mist every 10 minuets or so with harvested rain water and pump control by electrical timer
b) plant placed at shedded area

And I will buy some pots and propagate form there ,will there be viable ?

if too much humidity ,will harm the plant?

In the past I had tried to propagate but all falied ,and due to lack of knowledge
after visiting this site , not that simple as I thought

Hope to see results as from now

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

hi teysh,

hmmm.....have not tried this setup though however just to remind that the media should not be waterlogged and over shaded area is also no good for the plant. what species are you planning to get? i think a picture or a project draft will enable the experts here to give some proper advice...i am just a beginner and not in the position to give you any comments.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Im sorry to burst your inventive bubbles guys, but your set ups are just too complex, and maybe to small for what you’re growing..All you need is an atomizer, and a couple of long water trays with chicken mesh wire on top. Put the pots on the mesh, so when you water them every other day the water can pool = some humidity. Its paramount that you have them in an east facing window, so they dont get burnt. If you really want to do your plants a favor,like i did, get an atomizer. mine was $200, worth it? hell yes. its the finest mist, and they can,depending on the model, easily fill a 10 x 10 room, like mine, with 1000 parts per million of mist. This set up is exactly what i have, and i grow ultra highlands to semi-lowlands, all together, no special attention for just one plant, they all get the same treatment, living harmoniously......you dont need a fancy set up guys to grow ur precious highlands......just a little investment, and some space. My 2 cents.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

lol oh yeah, was reading about someone using mist nozzles every 10 min or something, you dont need to mist them that much! my atomizer has a switch, so i turn it on and off. If lucky, my plants get an atomizer mist once a day, rarely twice, and my plants are golden. It wouldnt hurt the plants to be constantly wet,maybe, but it doesnt hurt them to get just 1 mist a day, helps demote fungus......lol

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Thank you very much for the useful information , being first timer ,I am wondering a lot
perhaps should stick your method ,sound simple enough

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Glad i can help, what plants are you going to be growing? My idea is that you should start out with one or more of the following: Nepenthes ventricosa or hybrids, nepenthes x lady pauline, nepenthes sanguinea or hybrids, nepenthes spectabilis, and get some cape sundews. They look the best with many nepenthes; i collected some seeds a while back, and sprinkled them in every pot, now they are like little weeds =P But if u want a little variety, go with the capes..once they start to grow, they spread like wild fire, and are easy to take care of.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

Thank you very much for the advise .I have not decided what species to plant ,but had bought some nepenthes plant for trail and get some experince handling the plant . Where do you get the seeds from ? Not able to get any seeds here in Johor Malaysia . I may request from the seed bank

Have a nice day

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

You can get seeds from some ebay seller...

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

lol i hope u mean cape sundew seeds. the only reason i would use seeds is for tissue culture, and only for nepenthes seeds. They take sooo long to grow, and tend to die on ya, at least in my experience.go for a plant b4 the seed! it evil >.>

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

I agree with Vincent, Teysh. The seeds take a long time to grow and like he said they'll die on you... like my N.Mirabilis and Dioneae seeds

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

There is nothing more rewarding than growing your plants from seeds. Most of my lowland plants I've grown from seeds. It isn't so hard if you give them the right conditions. All you need is some patience. But isn't this what a gardener should have anyway? Don't have a clue what this has to do with tissue culture. There is no difference at first :confused: I grow my plants preferebly from seeds to have some individuals and not the same copy which hundreds of other growers also have. This is lots of more interesting.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

I agree with Boris on this point... when I first started in nep hobby, I always thought TC plants is the only way to go. Now, I will only get TC plants unless I got no other source of obtaining certain nep species and hybrids, I still prefer plants from a seed grown origin.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

the point of doing tissue culture on nepenthes seeds is so you DONT have to wait...yes, when grown by seed you can let them grow, picking out your favs out of the batch, but its just too long and too much of a pain to start out with a nep seed. tissue culturing nep seed takes about 7-10 weeks, and then you have a substantial looking plant;sure it costs alittle bit, but you get limitless amounts of plants that r priceless if you have bicalcarata, villosa, hamata, macrophyla, etc...but i was mainly talking to teysh, since they are unexperienced u kno;i sure wouldnt of wanted someone to give me nep seeds when i started out, and i probably will never buy seeds, for the simple fact it takes YEARS to produce substantial plant. i will only do seeds when my plants flower/if they flower around the same time, and if they are 2 that i want to make a hybrid out of,which is the only good thing about using there seeds. dont start the seeds unless you are ready to go down a bumpy,bumpy mountain of pain and patience. and boris...i said the only reason i would use nep seeds is for tc, meaning i will only grow nepenthes from seed when i get the materials for tissue culture, giving teysh a bigger picture on seeds vs. a grown plant.. now do u have a clue?

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

it's not true that tc seed grown plants are faster growing invitro than normal seed propagation. The only advantage of growing them in tc is stage 2. That you've got sterile seedlings which you can divide countless.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

lol alright. if you look at, lets say, a 3 yr old gracilis grown from seed, its as small as a ampullaria basal shoot!! And dont be too disappointed when you see a 5-6 yr old grown from seed, its very disappointing, in my opinion, too say the least.Now with tissue culture, depending on the plant, and a little luck, by the time they are deflasked, and potted, they are about an inch or two long, and you know by that time which plants are healthy, because they have made it this far!With seed you can grow your neps for years, and then you start to weed the weak ones out and pick plants with the best traits; with tissue culture, its definitely a faster way of natural selection. But really, both tc and seeding nepenthes need upmost attention and patience, but tc culture still brings in more quantity, and more quality, face down, period. How do you figure that boris? a successful invitro process harbors more potential for the seed than growing it in the ground;there life cycle is boosted onwards, and the plants grow just like they were a basal shoot, and doesnt take them 4-5 years to look like one. obviously, they do grow faster.

Re: simple setup for H/L neps
 

i also would only tc the nep seeds if they were grown by i, so it would(and have to) be a hybrid that no one has made or registered yet. Who wants to grow nepenthes ampullaria, rafflesiana, gracilis etc. from seed if thats all anyone grows anyway?even popular hybrids like viking?? If i want a hybrid of raff and fusca, ill go by an established hybrid thank you, and save the work and labor of seeds when there is actually something worth growing, u kno? something none have seen or grown.