Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I had a good discussion with Dr. Charles Clarke 2 days ago and he suggested that we experiment and try out inorganic materials as media for Nepenthes.

This is becuase when we use sphagnum moss or sphagnum peat, we are contributing to its depletion in the wild. The dried sphagnum moss and sphagnum peat we buy for our "pets" are harvested from their natural habitat in bogs and swamps. Sphagnum moss and sphagnum peat plays a very important part in the ecology of bogs and swamps where CPs grow. As such when too much is harvested, it does affect other life forms there.

I would like to organise an experiment here for members to try out inorganic materials to grow their Nepenthes. Please post your results in this thread. If you are already using inorganic materials succesfully, do post here and let us know as well.

Dr. Charles suggest a mix from the following materials below. These are recommended because they do not breakdown. Some like the clay pellets might be expensive but in the long run we would save money and help conserve sphagnum moss and peat in their natural environment. Also Dr. Charles said that for Nepenthes to grow well, the roots needs alot of air. Unlike sphagnum moss, coconut peat or even flora foam, these materials below will not breakdown or compress over time.

Mix the following media together:
- clay pellets (mix large and small sizes)
- Polysterine (broken into small pieces)

This is a very airy media and we will need to do some adjustments to the pot or our cultivation routine. Perhaps have a water saucer at the bottom that is constantly filled with water. Lets us know what works and what does not.

Please post here if you would like to try this. I hope each person can try on differnet species so we will know later which species is best suited for this media or for different species what additional things we need to do so they will grow well in this. Copy, add your name and species you will be trying this out in the list below and paste in your post:

N. sp. viking - David

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Hi David.......Very interesting.....Though i've never heard of clay pellets.....I'm not sure if it'll work but we'll never now till we try...Why not try putting the plant in a mix of moss and the other 2 medium but much less moss first? Perlites inorganic right? I need to wait for my cuttings to root in order to try this..

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

That's why I moved away from using SM and PM as the main ingredient of my nep media a while ago. I now use a large proportion of inorganic media (up to 50%-70%, some up to 100% depending on species) and organic media which consist of coco chips and coco peats. I highly recommend the use of coco media since it's environmental friendly (a by product) and it's dirt cheap.

95% of the neps in my growlist were potted with the mix I mentioned above.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I read in an orchid forum of zeolite. "Zeolites are microporous crystalline solids with well-defined structures." Did anyone tried already as media. It is also used for aquaristic filtering media.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

David, can you take some pictures of the clay pallets for us to see?

i'm currently trying out a mix of charcoal chips/pine bark/LFS. wanted to skip the LFS initially but is afraid that the plants may dry out. Test plants are N. madagascarensis and N. northiana.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

How about sponge? Holds water and can be cut into needed sizes.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I couldn't resist trying it out sooooo i went out repotted 2 among my uncountable amount of viking seedlings and repotted them in pure perlite and also baged them up to keep humidty...If cuttings strike in pure perlite why not actually even grow them in it...But this might not work even if it can actually grow in perlite cos of the repotting stress...I took all LFS away from the root so its barerooted..

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

hongrui, here's a picture of the clay pellets I got from the internet.
Attachment 2124

alcran, I think using sponge as part of the mix would be a good idea. It would retain water so that the polysterine and clay pellets mix is not too dry.

Boris, I just googled zeolites. Kinda interesting material. Is it a mineral of some sort? Not sure where to find it where I am.

cpnut, using coconut peat and coconut chips is a good alternative from s.moss and I have heard good things about it for Neps. My truncatas are grown in this and they thrive since I did the change. But I have a problem with this media as it decompose very quickly. For the purpose of this exercise, I hope we can find inorganic materials that does not decompose and would hold it's shape over time so that we can save cost in the long run and at the same time help conserve the natural habitat of sphagnum moss.

Ken, do let us know the results of your pure perlite mix.

So who else will be trying this out with the follwoing materials?

- clay pellets
- polysterine (broken into small pieces)
- sponge

Other materials:
- zeolites
- perlite

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I have had great success with diatomite for my orchids, as well as the LECA
(clay pellets). Diatomite might be a good alternative as it can hold 150% of
its weight in water. To bad I dont have any neps that I can afford to try it
on at the moment.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

According to Wikipedia Diatomite is a naturally occurring, soft, chalk-like sedimentary rock that is easily crumbled into fine powder. The typical chemical composition of diatomaceous earth is 86% silica, 5% sodium, 3% magnesium and 2% iron. Diatomaceous earth consists of fossilized remains of diatoms, a type of hard-shelled algae.

Not sure if this will be good as it crumbles easily. The media will be compressed over time and we need to transplant again. Wonder if the magnesium, iron and sodium might harm Neps or not.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Sorry this will be a bit Pessemistic, but I am not too sure about pure inorganic potting medium.. :( If the main purpose is to find alternative to SM and PM, you guys have already mentioned cocopeat and cocochips which is far more sustainable. If I may report.

1. Almost (emphasis there) all nepenthes keepers in Manila/Philippines are using cocopeat and cocochips, with some actually using coco products and other mixes, even clay.

2. I am not too sure about the decomposition yet, maybe I am not good at confirming if my coco mix has decomposed already or not, but I think that some kind of inorganic mixed with it will help a lot.

I myself will buy some more clay balls to mix with coco products in the future.

Lastly, I have had problems with some well drained mixes before, where they easily dry up and kill the plant, so even with cocochips, I do use a very shallow water tray (I know some do not recommend this for neps, but what can I do, either that, or water twice a day, or dead dried neps) :(

Very interesting topic! Looking forward to results!

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Thanks for your thoughts Arvin. No worries on being pessemistic. All ideas and thoughts are welcome here and on the forum. This is where we learn from each other. :1thumbup: Good thoughts Arvin.

Yes, I agree with you that coconut peat and coconut chips are already proven to work, but what I want to experiment here is to use clay pellets with polysterine and perhaps with sponge as well.

I am asking members here to try and experiment on these as media and think of ways how to lock in the moisture so that the plant do not dry out. It would be great if this can work as we may never need to repot or change the media for a long, long time as these media do not decompose and do not compress over time.

Perhaps what we can do is to place a deeper saucer of water under the pots or perhaps still use some sphagnum moss but just a thin layer on top of the media to lock in the moisture. Just some ideas off my head. I am sure members would be more creative than me and hopefully we can find a way to do this.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

You know this topic is leading into the field of hydroponic. Basically hydroponic is soiless horticulture where the nutrition is supplied through the water. Since CP don't need little or none fertilzer via roots any well drained mixture would do. All the medium does is give the roots to hold on and keep plant upright.
Slightly off topic, I had a colony of pgymy (Lake Badgerup) growing in silica carbonate for several years.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Arvin, I agreed with you on the coco media. 100% inorganic media can be use depending on the "species". For example, N. northiana, N. campanulata, N. boschiana and etc can grown nicely with 100% inorganic media. For other species, I think up to 70%-80% of inorganic media shouldn't be any problem as long as it won't compact and harden after a while(this is why it's better to mix different types and sizes of media). Everyone have their own preferred mix formula since the growing condition for everyone of us will be different.

From my experience, the problem with coco chips/peats being drying out too fast is because unlike other organic media, these media will take a while to properly rehydrated once it's completely dry out. In order to avoid this problem, you have to maintain a constant watering regime to keep the media moist, once it's moist, it'll usually take 2-3 days before it'll completely dry out again in tropical L/L condition without any watering.

Another good and cheap inorganic media would be pumice stone. If not mistaken, I think Shawn use a lot of it with his CPs.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Well it crumbles easily you can actually use your hand to divide it into smaller
pieces, tho i still use a hammer to smash them into smaller pieces. once set
they don't deteriorate at all, although i noticed that the top layer of it
becomes a haven for algae. And the first time you soak them in water you
can actually hear them sizzle as they absort water. I have no idea of the minerals
whether they can be good for neps or not.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Would be great if you can try this out on one pot of Nepenthes and let us know? That's good news if they do not deteriorate at all. These are the types of media I want to find out if it can be use.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Of course, problem is that I dont have any neps that i am willing to try this
on at the moment. I do however have 2 ventricosa's that are not doing well
so i dont think it'll be good to try it there. Give me a few weeks and i'll buy
some cheap alatas to try on diatomite.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Can replace peat moss with cocopeat and Sphagnum moss with Cocochips like what Roberts said.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

yep, coco peat and coco chips are what my mix is made up of. with some
coarse charcoal.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

It is used for aquaristic filtering and often also used by Koi breeders for there filter systems. I found some 20 litres bags for about 30 US$ here in germany. As it is strongly absorbing ammonia and salts it should even work as filter material in the medium. It doesn't release any of the absorbed things but nevertheless it is "rechargable". But that I haven't looked yet how this works. Didn't ordered yet. Just wanted to see that there is maybe already some experience.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

If I may add, one overlooked inorganic media that is often found in the natural habitat of neps is sand....

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Agree with Robert. Most lowlanders survive pretty well in just pure sand. So by adding some cocopeat and/or cocochips and/or laterite (which is found abundantly in Malaysia), should help water retention quality of the media.

Charcoal, delphiguy, is an excellent idea. Especially if you crush it into small chips. Has water retention qualities too. However, softwood charcoal and charcoal which are not cured properly should be avoided as it will encourage fungus growth. One point to note: charcoal production using primitive technology (like in Malaysia) is enviromentally damaging i.e. big carbon foot print.

Highlanders are beyond me be as I don't own any.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I have been using something called "bark mulch" for a little while. It's bark that has been shredded into small pieces. I haven't been using it long , but so far the plants are healthy. I think it's made of bark from fir trees, so perhaps it would be difficult to find in many tropical and subtropical locations. However, any other plant material in small pieces that decompose slowly when wet would be possible candidates for Nepenthes medium.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Hi guys,

David, i think using flora sponge will be a great idea since it could retain a good admount of water... i'll be trying out 50%/50% flora sponge and caly pillet...as i am having a pretty hard time looking for my usual planting media here...
i will try it out on a N.tentacul
ata.

Regards
Jonathan

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Oh someone did mention about the species. I totally agree that there might be species that can take pure inorganic medium, while others might not like it. I am not too sure yet which ones will and which ones wont thrive in inorganic medium. Would be nice if that can be an offshoot of this experiment as well.

It's I think a bit related to Shawn's water rooting experiment.

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I recently found a new type of clay substrate called Seramis (productname). I think it's like burnt earth but probably a different composition. The info on the website does sound promissing and as soon as i need to repot my neps ill be trying it out.

Here are some specs :
Its a mixture form different types of clay from Germany
Size of the pellets : 10% 0,5-2,0mm; 70% 2,0-4,0mm; 20% >4mm
Dryweight : 390g/liter
Wetweight : 800g/liter (waterretention >100% of the dryweight)
Amout of air when completely absorbed with water : about 50% (so enough air eventhou it holds a lot of water)
porous volume : >80%
pH : 6,2-7,3 (after 3 years still >5);
Salts (KCl) : <0,05g/100g
CaO : 0,1mg/100g
Na2O : 3mg/100g
Mg2+ : <5mg/100g
Cl- : <3mg/100g
F+ : 0,5mg/100g

So it seems to be a good candidate for neps. Ill keep you guys posted when i get a chance to test it out. For more info you can check the website : seramisuk.co.uk

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I thinking to find some materials easy to find and of couse I can find it in my country *biggrin2*.
I will do a experiment name grow nepenthes with out pot. I will grow nepenthes in net and potting media is coco chip with perlite *biggrin2* hope this successful. I have saw some nepenthes in the wild, they grow in pure sand.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

natural clay pellets comes free and easily available are excellent. These were tried with northiana, rafflesiana,campanulata, veitchii(L/L and intermediate).

northiana example...seeds grown since Jan,2007. Germinated in peat moss and later transfered to pur natural clay pellets.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...u/DSCN5817.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...u/DSCN5814.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...u/DSCN5811.jpg

Burnt clay works exceptionally well on northiana and campa., Probably after the burning process the increased presence of nitrates and other oxides of iron and manesium encourages plant growth. It is also widely used in agricultural farms or nurseries.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Slightly off topic, just for information.

Just got back from a factory which sends palm fiber to China (this one made from Oil Palm bunch). They are selling the fiber at close to USD250 per tonne in one tonne bale. Cocochips may become very expensive later on as they are perfect substitude. China has unlimited demand for this product.

Maybe I can get some sample and distribute just to test it out. It is not chips, liken wool.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Ok, finally found some time from work and family to do this. I will be testing this media on my N. albomarginata x gracilis instead of my N. sp. viking. My N. sp. vikings aren't to healthy lately.

Anyhow here's the plant in its original media...
Attachment 2180

Taken it out of the pot. It was potted in a mix of coconut peat + coconut chips + sphagnum moss. I noticed the coconut chips has turned into a mush and its roots aren't growing into the sphagnum moss. It has been stagnant in growth for some time now. About a year the least. The second picture shows the amount of roots on the plant.

Attachment 2181

Attachment 2182

I did a mix of clay pellets + polysterine foam (those that can absorb water) + polysterine + silica sand. The silica sand is to add some weight in the pot so it does not get blown away in strong wind. Anyway, I was thinking since I have so much, why not dump it in. The polysterine foan was broken into smaller pieces.


polysterine foam...
Attachment 2183

Clay pellets...
Attachment 2184

Polysterine broken into small round pellets...
Attachment 2185

Black silica sand...
Attachment 2186

Below is a picture of the media mix...
Attachment 2187

Placed some stones at the bottom of the pot to prevent the media from flowing out...
Attachment 2188

Potted plant in the new inorganic media. I shall place it in my terrarium for a couple of days before placing it back in it's original location outside my apartment window where it gets direct evening sunlight. I will be placing it in a deeper water tray to make sure there is always water in the media. I may just place a thin layer of s. moss on top the media to lock in moisture. However, been thinking of somethings else that I can use besides s. moss.

Attachment 2189

I will report back in this thread in a few months time to give the results and my cultivation practice for this plant in its new inorganic media.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Rockwool would be nice to help to lock the moisture:1thumbup:

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Not sure where to get this and in what form?

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Rockwool was use to pot aquatic plants but heard it might be harmful... They usually comes in cube form much like the flora foam.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Rockwool proofed in several tests that it can be the cause for cancer. But also I've read that there are several generations of it. The newest forms seem to be sure. I've never bought any basal cubes but they should be signed as new generation form and guaranteed that they aren't unhealthy.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Infact, i am selling rockwool sheet, you can find them at builders shop.
Dont buy the cube form, they are harmful, rather buy those sheet form.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

If I get the rockwool sheet, do I cut it into smaller pieces or how?

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

yes and you should wear gloves or it could happen that you get skin irritations. I've read some more articles about it: So it's not absolutely sure that it's carcinogen. Some say it is ... some say it's not :confused:
I haven't any experience with it so I read further: It doesn't take the water so easy like sphagnum or peat. So you should totally saturate it with water before putting it in your mixture. It has a ph of 7 - 8,5. So it might be also very usefull in a high ratio in the mixture for campanulata, northiana ...

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Boris,
i think your rockwool is different with ours in asia. For those rockwool made in malaysia, the ph is ard 6-7. Yes you are right with the fine particular that cos skin irritation, that is because the fine strain of wool poking on your skin, so gloves are a must. Also after handling the wool, use strong detergent to wash also help. As for me, i use masking tape to paste on the part that is irritate then peal it off, it does help:) Also, rockwool absorb water very fast if you buy those low density type, i would suggest your to buy 1inch 2pound type.
Yes David, just use a paper cutter to cut it to size.*biggrin2*

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

I quickly scanned this thread so sorry if I end up being redundant.
Here is a CPN article from 2000 on this subject.

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn...NepInorSub.htm

I tried it once, but my problem was I got lax in watering , and obviously with a mix like this, you water much, much more often then usual mixes.
Note the authors use Osmocote to mack of the breaking down of organics.
I have been using a mix of garden center mulches here in the US. I like using different ones together, as they have different shapes and make it a little more open. I am using pine bark mulch, cedar mulch, fir bark and cypress. I also put in charcoal, perlite, lava pebbles , coco husk chips and um, a little sphagnum. This is equal parts, so the lfs is only 1/9th of the mix(even at such a small dose, the cedar smells really good!)
I am not sure if the sphagnum is needed, as this mix seems to hold water very well and drains freely.
Obviously, this is not inorganic with all the wood products, but mulch is used by the tons for landscaping, etc, and is more renewable than lfs and peat. I would imagine there are a lot of local tree products that would work in Nepenthes mixes anywhere.

Cheers,

Joe

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

i find vermiculite to be even successful by itself for nepenthes really, but a little orchid bark and perilite would add more air pockets.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

Thanks for the suggestion Vincent. Now we know that using just vermiculite works as well.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

How about this burnt rice hull? See quite a couple of indonesian post mentioning sekam bakar. This is a popular media in Thailand and Taiwan for adenium. Anyone tried this before?

I bought a big back for very cheap before from Sg Buloh for my lawn and other plants. If this could be use, we could have a fairly inexpensive media.

Re: Inorganic media for Nepenthes
 

This is a very airy media and we will need to do some adjustments to the pot or our cultivation routine. Perhaps have a water saucer at the bottom that is constantly filled with water. Lets us know what works and what does not.