Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Dear Mr./Ms. Admin,

thks for yr support
i'm grateful to you for this

Best Regards,
hvophuong

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Hi mr.Delwin,
I know you - your welcome
I'm good friend with Mr.Linh at VN and I used to buy some CPs plants fr Mr.Goh

nice to know you

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2526/...859af33cdb.jpg

Is this what you all talking about?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8127764@N05/
He is such a pro- grower !
AND THIS IS HOW WE - VIETNAMESE GROWER- DOES.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

TO: TranMinh/ VN

CC to everyone to relax b/c I’m so free.
This is my mgs I received fr Tran Minh - teenager
Today I (in VNamese, “tui” and “Tôi ” is callway with patronizing attitude) wrote this letter to say sth.
I stranslated to eryone whom to read. Did my translations wrongs? I was against sb or you ?
Why you used phrase “CPs community at VN” in this case ??
In this case, phrase above is only you, not me – don’t use this phrase to trick and pun on as including me in this way of pun
In VN, relation with person and person in “CPs community” is the way “money is all over” (means:relation only base on money). In fact, when to meet sb (in this community, maybe;)), I like no one anymore (means: hate every one whom I met).
Finally, ending in this. Summary: I don’t like this behavior more (this behavior = hvophuong)
----

And this is my reply to NgoTranMinh;
1.No, I’ve never said you wrong before. Wrong thing is only I believed you that you understand and share with me whom I borne but none. That’s reason why I had to write in VNamese to you. And then, you’re public with yr EL good skill. I must “grateful” to you about this. L. You’re “good guy”
Oh, Anh chua he noi Cau sai dau nha. Dieu sai lam duy nhat la Anh da tin rang Cau co hieu biet va co the chia se nhung kho khan ma anh dang chiu, nhung…..thua. Do la ly do tai sao anh viet gui cho Cau bang tieng Viet de khong muon ho doc – ket qua, Cau pho^ dien tai nang tieng Anh cua minh bang cach pho bien noi dung rieng tu cua Anh va Cau cho ca TG biet. Anh ro rang phai “biet on” vi dieu do. Cau “tot” voi anh lam
2. Vn community that I mentioned including me and my friends who love Cps plant - no including you, safety !. They’re good relation with me, have the same hobbies, equal or older than me. Above all others, they have knowledge and be reasonable – not like you, a urchin teenager, with a little knowledge and living lavender fr childhood not know how to behave. you are not eligible to talk to us. .(Maybe yr parent spent all the time for earning money, any have notime to teach such a naughty boy like you first)
I dont have time to waste for such a mindless boy like you. you make me crazy to talk with
I hate kids like you – Pls don’t reply to me, so tired…to answer. This make me lower self.
Stay away fr me and don’t make trouble before
Take care
P/s: maybe I’m stupid, not good skills to express exactly one by one word.
The rest part, you can translate self to fit yr opinion b/c I’m very stupid, not enough vocabulary J
Cong dong VN ma Anh de cap gom nhung nguoi ban cua toi va toi - khong bao gom Cau, suong nhe. Ho la nhung nguoi co moi quan he tot voi toi tai VN, co cung chung so thich, bang hoac lon tuoi hon. Va tren het, ho la nguoi hieu biet va biet cach cu xu – khong nhu Cau, 1 thang nhai nhep hoi sua chua du tuoi vi thanh nien, hoc duoc ty chu + nhieu tien va duoc nuong chiu tu be, da khong biet ton ty lon nho.
Tranh luan voi Cau chi to lam thiet hai cho Anh ma cha duoc loi ich gi. Anh ghet nhung thang nhai nhieu tien, hoc cao nhung khong duoc day do ve le phep va cach cu xu voi nguoi khac nhu Cau day.
( co the nguoi lon da khong co thoi gian de day Cau ve dao duc va cach cu xu truoc khi duoc di hoc)
Khong nen lang phi thoi gian voi thang nhai khong biet troi dat nhu Cau. Lam the, Anh se tu ha thap minh
Bien di cho khuat mat, dung co ma dung den Anh khi ma Anh khong lam phien Cau

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Hi Mr Hoi, i know you too. Be strong, we will protect those plants in VN ourselves. Those ppl out there know nuts abt VN.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Hi hvophuong,
Can I ask you to post some close up shots of the plant? Pitchers, leaves, stems and lid?? Any pics to show us will be greatly appreciated. We'll be honoured if you can help us understand and learn more about this species. Thankyou very much. :smile:

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

[QUOTE=NepNut;26306]Hi hvophuong,
Can I ask you to post some close up shots of the plant? Pitchers, leaves, stems and lid?? Any pics to show us will be greatly appreciated. We'll be honoured if you can help us understand and learn more about this species. Thankyou very much. :smile:[/QUOT

Dear Mr.Nepnut

Now, I can't post anythings else b/c I'm not arranging times to visit this place again

But i promise i will update new pics after I came these again

thks for yr attention

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Dear hvophuong,

Thanks for doing this. Will be looking forward to your posting. It is ok if the pic is not from habitat since we just wanted to take a better look of this nep. However pics from the wild will still be the best... *biggrin2*

Thanks again for your effort. :1thumbup:

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

---
Dear Mr.nepnut,

Ok, i promise

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I don't blame huong and his fellow Vietnamese their reluctance to show the site of the plants to foreigners. Take this story for example.

Last year, a friend showed me a N. macrophylla seedling. As you know, macrophylla is found in the Kinabalu National Park and is a protected species. Many collectors in the west and Japan are willing to pay and a king ransom for it. I asked him how he managed to get it. This is what he told me.

There is a certain foreign consultant who works for the Kinabalu NP. He was returning to his home country. He knew of a spot where a small population of N. macrophylla seedlings grew. So he paid a native who live aound the fringe of the NP to collect some plants from him. Of course, that "native collector" collected more than what he was told to collect.

So if a consultant to the Kinabalu NP can steal, what guarantee other foreigners would not!

Choong

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I don't blame huong and his fellow Vietnamese for their reluctance to show the site of the plants to foreigners. Take this story for example.

Last year, a friend showed me a N. macrophylla seedling. As you know, macrophylla is found in the Kinabalu National Park and is a protected species. Many collectors in the west and Japan are willing to pay and a king ransom for it. I asked him how he managed to get it. This is what he told me.

There is a certain foreign consultant who works for the Kinabalu NP. He was returning to his home country. He knew of a spot where a small population of N. macrophylla seedlings grew. So he paid a native who live aound the fringe of the NP to collect some plants from him. Of course, that "native collector" collected more than what he was told to collect.

So if a consultant to the Kinabalu NP can steal, what guarantee other foreigners would not!

Choong

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Hello,

I can hardly believe what I'm reading. The whole discussion is distorted by the prism of nationalism.
I came here to record and to study the plants and now I am suspected to be ...a poacher? That's ironic.

I contacted Huong several times, sending proofs of my works and proposing to show him my permits and my correspondance with the Institute of Tropical biology of HCM City. He never replied. You wonder why. He's the one on the pictures with dug plants. Not me.

Now, I have nothing more to add to this topic.
This Vietnamese trip with Charles Clarke has been time and money consuming and all I feel now is bitterness. I will focuse my work on other countries such as Cambodia. It's a shame I couldn't study the most famous Nepenthes species of my country of birth: I was born in Vietnam. Did I also forget to mention that my parents are Cambodian people and thus from an "underdeveloped" country (I certainly never used that word)? Origins seem to be so important for some of you here.



Francois.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Francois,

Don't get so upset. Your contribution to the study of N Thorelii are highly appreciated by many of us here.

This trip may not be a fruitful one but it should not be the end. You just need to look for other people who are willing to work with you.


BTW, going into a former war zone is dangerous, there could be left over bombs out there. Just make sure you have a guide who are familiar with the location.

Cheers,
Wong

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Francois,

Please do not give up hope, it's people like you we had a chance to know N. bokorensis. :1thumbup:

As you should be aware of as a person with Asian origin, it's sometimes different when dealing with Asian. I think all this issues started with initial misunderstanding. Let's move on and concentrate on preserving this unique species while it's still around in the wild for all of us to admire.

I wish you all the best in your research, please keep up the good work Francois. :1thumbup:

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Wow this really is a misunderstanding...sorry hvophuong for every thing I said to make you upset but really..you stated you dug up two plants but it's lamede who dug up the plants that means...you is lamede?:spinning::spinning:

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

What ever it is... for me, the person that steal all plants from mother of nature is really a rude person!!!! They suppose not to do so...

Hope the POACHER dont do that again...

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

They won't be able to do it again, I think. Unless they find another site of thorelii

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

My Dear Francois,

If I have offended you in my last posting, I sincerely apologise to you. I didn't mean you are a poacher. On the contrary, I admired your good work and have enjoyed all your field reports in this and other forums. I placed you highly amongst Ma Suska, Longor, Dr A Robinson, Voker and McPherson.

But the fact is for every good guy like you, probably there are three or 4 guys who have no hesitations in pulling the plants out. After all, Ma Suska and longor have reported in one of their field reports that some Germans have poached some rare plants and they no longer give indications where the plants in their field trips are found.

In reality, unless the nepenthes are found in national parks or forest reserves, they are doomed because of the demand for land for agriculture and housing. Only last week a tiger was found butchered in the forest reserve. If the protected tiger with such high profile can be poached, what chance do the nepenthes have. After all, unlike orchids, to alot of people, nepenthes are nothing but weeds.

Choong

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Dear hvophuon,

I was on Chinese New Year holiday and just got back last Thursday. I did not have internet access while I was traveling. I just saw this thread and your request to remove the pictures. I have not been checking the threads either since I got back last Thursday. I was just busy with the seed bank and trying to recover from a sore throat.

Thanks Lim for helping to remove hvophuong's pictures and Robert for your explanation on my behalf.

Just to let members know that all of you can go to the Admin Members, which includes the Executive Members and Moderators on issues pertaining to members and the discussions on the forum.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Francois,

talking with carefully.

i heard that French is good at communicate and very polite in behavior; but you didn't. I've never seen style French like you before. Maybe you are exception.

- If you were French,what reasons why did you encourage , protecte me how good and then you show yr thread with words which full incite after not get yr aim ?.excellent!!!
it's how good?? you call us is "dirty hand" - who call you "dirty hand" - researcher !!??.
you like me, too. but maybe i fell better than you when protect them fr sb come in site to "research" like you for some other aims.

- If you were French, should you ever use private things which stolen to give evidence?. and minimum, if you were not French - you are European, you shouldn't smear the good repute of me by private things. (you can hide the face or sth like that - but none). it's make you're happy??. it's politeness minimum you should have?!. what's yr motivation?

French is very good, not like you.

i'm poacher - I didn't negate. but I only collected 2 plants b/c too stupid not enough awareness like you.
SO, how many Cps whhich you dug fr wild for "yr research" and how many other plants wild be stolen fr yr informations. pls keep yr answers in private. I no need them.


And finally,one reminder to evryone: you should open yr eyes wide when make friend with him - a person who always attain the goal (by any cost) and take care yourselve. don't be cheat by his outward. You always get risk if make him vexed.

I will try to stop fighting with you - a person like famous, like be admired by distort, sully sb and make scandal. it's make me lower myself.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I will say this to you again Hvo, even though i can barely understand a thing you say.

Why are you so anti-francois?
this man is one of the keys to saving this species, you think your helping it but your not. if francois can document this species, collect seed(we dont need herbarium specimens, we already have them!) spread some seed out, make sure some seed got to the big time Nep places like BE, EP, or MT and get some thorelii into cultivation, that is by far the best way to do it, not by "protecting them" by not showing qualified botanists and people who absolutely strive to save this species, francois loves this plant, why would he destroy it? he seems d**n devoted to it, the man paid money to come out there to do the community and this species a favor, and you turn him down because he accuses people of poaching, well no duh, clearly you see a boy showing off his newly dug up plant and hanging it around like a trophy, this species has the possibility of being extinct for all we know, we are just taking your word that there are more in the wild, i hope you do the right thing if this is the case and place plants back in the wild when you can, be it cuttings/basals/seedlings or w.e the hell it is you choose, make the right decision and view it in the eyes of of the nepenthes enthusiasts who really do strive for conservation and not destruction of these marvelous plants.

I am not saying the vietnam community in a whole is bad if anyone got that in my post earlier in this discussion on the other forum, but the people who go out and poach for personal gain, i understand that they need to feed their families, but dont destroy a population/species for it, seed/cuttings/basals or any of that would have been a much better route to take like many others have stated before.


I myself know what its like to want to protect a location from people, there is a pristine sphagnum bog covered in thousands of gleaming dews, and in the center, a lake with utrics, and covered in native rhododendron and orchids, i and a few others know the location, and i only got to go because of a good friend of mine who trusted me with the location, seeds in this case would be the only route that i would even consider, and i didnt even do that! i was even concerned with stepping on the dews and i didnt even want to walk through it it was so beautiful, a good 4 species of sphagnum dominated this area, including the very beautiful capilifollium which turns a beautiful red.

The area is protected by law, from poachers. which is what im sure francois woud like to do with your thorelii, protect and most certainly not destroyed. Conservation of these plants and everything else is crucial considering we have already whiped out so many other species in this world!

Get your head out of your ass, hes trying to help the species not destroy it.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

One of the many sad things about this thread here is, (aside from the language barriers), are the historic and cultural differences: remember that the United States of America (USA) took over the "Vietnamese Conflict" (a brutal war) from the French! So, it's not too surprising that many of the people in Vietnam have a "certain distain" for the French, but at the same time, the irony is that Francois was born in Vietnam, although his ancestry is from neighboring Cambodia; perhaps there are some ethnic differences between these cultures as well. Still, so sad on so many levels. - Rich

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Let this come to an end.
Nepenthes may us happy not angry
Wish we can talk with smiles

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Hi Rich !
I know for sure Francois moved to some where in EU or Us or some when he was a child.
For war, it is over.
All of these thing happen because of one reason : Vnese doesnt have a serious attitude about envirement . Some little kids know that then try to put themselves that they have permisson to protect as a hero but they dont understand that the real life is. I myself was just think these are for my hobby , dont want to make it be a fight. Sure it is better to be polite at the first time and try to get to know first.
When I read this thread at the first time. There full of rude attitude and bad words. Nobody wants to be called POACHER , right? That's why we have to argue....
All I want to say is : Fran still not yet know the true - he believes the urban kid about the nepenthes here and write the report against us. That's not fair
I cant express all of my thinking by words. You can ask Shawn to know me more. Thanks

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Ok, I think everyone has said what they want to say. I shall lock this thread until such time in the near future when someone wants to say something else, then I will reopen this thread again.

Also, I have brought back the posts that some of you have deleted on this thread recently so that everyone can refer to what was written. This shall be so until sunch time the Admin Members and I feel we should remove the entire thread.