Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

tuy em, em da lua chon...

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Guys I will get a proper translation from my viet friend who speaks fluent english

but from what i can tell I think there is just a big misunderstanding from both sides.
I think both sides need to put themselves in the other sides shoes and see from their point of view.

I think Franc and co were too quick to judge and are using hvophuongs pict to depict a poacher when he has only taken 2 plants for what he believes is to introduce the plant into cultivation.

There were trust issues with franc and I dont blame him seeing that foreigners come in and want to know the secret location to a native plant, Would you tell this stranger/ foreigner you dont know about where the location is ??? (common sense here guys...imagine your a normal bloke and your in his situation after the whole forum outrage earlier)

Also from the stuff he wrote in viet he does not want a situation where westerners come in and take this plant and distribute around the world.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

@rainyday:
that's right whom I want share
thks for yr comment:1thumbup:

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Let me help you to translation this fast and true 100% no changing at all.


Kai, I never been talking to you. What are you talking about ?
What ever, I never meet you but I know who you are and I don't want to ague with you so join us help VN people fight back, don't let those animal make a story and say that we are not civilization.
Do you understand ?
Anyway, I will protect Vietnam community to the end. What ever those stupid foreigners, they listen to francos without thinking !.
Also thank you for the reply. But I don't like you to say that we like yo digging plants from the wild who let you that ?
Please 100% doing for Vietnamese - not for the foreigners.
Thanks.

I never say that you all digging plants from the wild, I wrote what I think is right !. I never did some thing that unfair, I really like this plants, so I want to protect it at it site. I never like to see they get sale or digging up, also you shouldn't rude like that. They have good think for the plants, they want to protect the plants, I see there is nothing wrong. If you really love this plants with everything you have, then you should protect it like a small child. There is many misunderstood, also there is many right thing, don't be blind to doing something wrong.

It depend on you, you have choose ...

Nothing is translation wrong here, I guarantee.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

First Part hvophuong is telling tranminh that he has never spoke to him before and that he has done nothing to him and some phrase which literally means (stop opening your shirt to foreigners/ sucking up to them)
Then he goes he will protect his community and that he would not give out their secrets to a foreigner like francosis who looks down on them.
Then he says thanks you for clarifying that there are good vietnamese hobbist, however i dont agree with you agreeing with the westerners that we have a bad habbit of digging plants from the jungle.

Last line I suggest you support the vietnamese people and not the westerners.

While tran minh is telling him he loves the plants and he doesnt want a situation where the plants disappear from natural habitat and people are digging them out to sell them.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I think sometimes the best way to preserve a species is to commercialize it.

I collect cactus and I have seen cactus of CITES I species being seed grown by the hundreds in Malaysia and sold very cheaply. This helps to preserve it by creating more genetic diversity as well as their numbers.

Many of the wild neps habitat will be lost to agriculture or development. There is no use protecting a species without protecting the habitat. I've seen many habitat being destroyed in the past few months in Malaysia. Malaysia has only 28 million population. Vietnam has three times more.

I think our Vietnam CP friend have every right to dig up the wild neps provided that his purpose is to preserve the species. Leaving it in its habitat in this highly populated country may not be a good idea. Bare in mind that only two plants were found, it could be the last two ever grown in the habitat. Leaving it to chance is not a good idea.

It is even better if he want to propagate it for commercial purpose. This will really helps in its preservation. The species will be more valuable if our vietnam friend could allow our scientific friend to formally describe the species. This way, both will benefit.

If he just want too keep it as his private collection, then it could be the end of the species.

Wong

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I completly agree with Wong

hvophuong you are one of the only people that can save this plant by mass producing it and sharing with all the vietnamese hobbist and maybe the rest of the world.

Even if you dont want the plant in western hands it eventually will be sold overseas whether by someone digging from jungle or originating from your vietnamese community from your 2 plants.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Gee – if ever I needed a reminder as to why I prefer not to post on these forums, this thread has provided it!

I’m not going to get involved in this argument, but I do need to clarify one point that relates directly to me:

It has been suggested in some posts in this thread that I was in Vietnam conducting illegal research. I wish to state very clearly that I was not conducting any illegal research on this trip. Francois invited me to join him in his search for N. thorelii and I tagged along because the prospect of seeing this species in the wild was appealing, as was the opportunity to see some semi-deciduous monsoon forests during the dry season. I entered the country on a tourist visa and am perfectly entitled to travel around and look for Nepenthes on this type of visa without obtaining any special permits, just as any Vietnamese tourist who visits Australia is entitled to look for kangaroos.

This trip was relevant to my scientific research, as I wish to find out what sorts of mosquitoes live in pitchers throughout Indo-China. However, without a formal research permit, I was unable to do anything more than to simply take a look around. That was all I wanted to do and there is nothing illegal about it. In fact, the staff of the nearby nature reserve were very encouraging and did everything they could to assist. Throughout my trip, I was impressed by the local people's knowledge, friendliness and willingness to assist.

If I had found something of interest that I felt was worth investigating further, I would have waited until I got back to Malaysia, then used the proper channels to arrange a formal research permit with the Vietnamese authorities, before making a return trip to Vietnam at some future date to conduct the research. However, with no access to a wild population of N. thorelii, there is no point in me doing this at present.

I would be grateful if anyone who has suggested that I entered Vietnam to conduct research without a permit could retract their remarks or accusations.

Best wishes,

Charles

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Hey Minh,

you're "good guy"
I will remember which you did for VN commu.
once again thks mr.Minh "supported"
I will disappear away this topic to avoid problems

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

@mr.Charles: thks for yr comment
I wish if you talk with me before; maybe anythings will change
I didn't believe mr.fran. b/c he wants to get more special by anyways.
a person who take you around here is plants series killer and sell them. Mr.fran already co_op to get his aim. I don't like this.
If you're me - what should you do in this case?