N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Last weekend Jonathan, TS and I went to this amppularia site inbetween the northern states and Kuala Lumpur to revisit this site. This was where we found those huge amppullaria... picture below...

https://forum.petpitcher.net/picture....1&pictureid=15

To our dismay, the entire site have been leveled and the trees bulldozed to make way for a road. This is the sad sight. My heart broke when I saw this. The amps here were the largest I've seen so far in person.

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So we decided to go to another site a couple of kilometres away... Here's some picture to share...

N. xhookeriana
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N. gracilis
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N. ampullaria inflorescence
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N. xtrichocarpa
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N. gracilis uppers
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More N. ampullaria inflorescence
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A dark maroon plant of N. gracilis. This plant is growing under direct sunlight in an open space. Check out the new developing leaves in the second picture. Blood red! Simple beautiful.

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N. ampullaria upper pitchers
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Found a N. mirabilis with a thick peristome. Looks kinda like Angelina Jolie's lips but green colour...
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Found Utric here. We did not know we were stepping on them. They're everywhere. Learnt a new thing that day. I was asking TS why my Utric don't seem to be very vigorous and does not spread over the whole pot. TS said that Utric do not like sandy media (I use a sandy mix for my utric). And he was right! Wwe only found utric growing on the wet media with no sand. Those areas with sand had no utric at all.

Here the picture... I'm the guilty one... :blush: that's my shoe print on the ground. :tongue:
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The traps of the utric at its roots
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TS found a gracilis pitcher with two colours
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Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hi

Wahhh......so nice the amps and the gracilis.Those amps which you say are big are indeed truly big.I've never seen N ampullaria uppers before but now i do.The N xtrichocarpa looks retarded lol not insulting anyone or anything but it just looks weird.Also the blood red N gracilis......blwah......Don't the neps get sunburn or anything????The last picture looks like N mirabilis var echinotsoma

Ken

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

That is the upper pitchers of N. xtrichocarpa, that's why it looked different. Very few plants have sunburn on their leaves. As you can see in the pictures their leaves are almost perfect.

Yaa, we were thinking of fooling you guys/gals here that the last picture of N. mirabilis was a echinostoma but the picture was not convincing enough.. haa, haa... Nevertheless, I like the thick broad peristome. All the picthers on the plants in that particular corner is all green.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hmmmm unfair lol neps which are grown in my balcony don't like direct sun because its already to acustom to its shaded conditions and then suddenly the sun direction changed and shine straight at my balcony.Well its nice to see people going to wild sites of neps and sharing them hehehheheehhehehe.

Ken

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Nice plants David.The ampullaria growing in direct sunlight or what?
Love those xTricocharpa but can't get it anywhere.
First time looking at a ampullaria's upper pitcher.

So sad too.Pitty those plants. >_<

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

The entire amp plant is totally covered by other plants and ferns. Only the growing stems reach upwards out of the shade for sunlight. So if you are not familiar with Nep plants, you'll walk pass them without noticing them. It makes it even harder because amps do not usually have pitchers up in their vines. Occasionally some uppers, but that's it.

In this particular site, the vines travel horizontally under other weeds and ferns for a couple of meters long before they bend upwards out. Those pictures of their inflorescence are examples of the vines.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hi Bro...

The heart broken trip picture is out... so sad the BIG amp is gone... and turned into some logging area... haiz...

But atlease we still have fun revisiting this great site ^^ anyway will be looking forward to be there again in near future...

Thank you very much bro for sharing those wonderful picture...

Regards
Jonathan

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Sad to hear that the site is replaced by road

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Wow! That's a sad sight to behold when a healthy stand of CPs, and possibly a unique form of N. ampullaria at that have been bull dozed into oblivion! :( I hope somebody managed to get some cuttings and/or seed from them before the site was destroyed!

The other shots of the red N. gracilis are stunning! I hope somebody has this in cultivation too by harvesting a few cuttings and/or seed. - Rich

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hehe... you I know where you talk about. Stupid road widening project! Some CITES Red list animal also got bulldozed.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

That's why I am pulling my hair out now that I did not dig up the nice huge amp at that site in my previous visit. If only I knew the place would be destroyed, I would not think twice digging it out. I won't be doing cuttings then. Just dig them all up, take home and share it around.

Maybe we should go back to that gracilis site and take some cuttings of that red gracilis before that site is also destroyed.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Oh, I did not know that! Sad man! What species was that? Sigh...

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I was thinking about that too David as the whole area will be crowded by people in the future and the plants will be destroyed if the plants were taken by people who don't know their cultivation at all.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

David, Hint: Ask Dom and Lim. The both of them will know very well. Already said enuf. Don't want more people going there.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

The gracilis with 2 colour was unique. Does other pitcher from the same plant show the same coloration, David?

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Even though i'm not there but i think it should only be on one pitcher this happened most probally becaused of the light levels maybe one side was exposed and the other side wasn't....Well i guess most of you know already

Ken

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Robert,
I've seen a lot of plants in the wild like that.
As what Ken said, it could be the light intensity.

The dark marron/black gracilis is somewhat rare to me and love the growing point which is shiny in the direct sunlight.

David,

Next time you see nepenthes,dig them up.I don't care whether people call me poacher.
It's just isn't right.Please think fellow forumers.
Is it better the plants to be destroyed or to be grown in home with us?

Please advice if i'm wrong!

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hi Robert,

The answer is No. The other pitchers does not have that same coloration. It's just an odd one I guess.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I believe that if we are unsure about the status of the habitat whether it will be destroyed or not, we should leave the plants alone. But if the place is going to be destroyed, I agree with you that we should "save" the plants.

Having said that I know some growers might feel this is not the right thing to do and many others with other school of thoughts on this subject. This is a controversial subject and the decision that each person makes is influence by personal reasoning and believe. So, I am not saying everyone should agree with me... I'm just stating what I feel and hope that I do not upset you if you do not agree with me.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Amazing pic, though it's too bad that the site got dozed.


I think that for legal reasons, it's best not to dig up any plants. If they are going to be destroyed, just take cuttings all the way down to the ground, and just leave the roots. Damaged roots won't adapt very well, anyway, and the roots can regenerate a new plant if they are not destroyed by the construction.

(Sorry, I just had to say my opinion)

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Digging up the whole plant, roots and all, can be a bad idea, as they may have root parasites such as nematodes; N. amp basals root like a snap, and snap off easy enough, and may in fact be a way that they reproduce naturally in the wild; just imagine the weight of all those basals filling up with water after a heavy rainfall, causing them to snap off the main stem, and falling into wet leaf litter and moss.

However, if one knows for certain that the site is going to be destroyed, I would certainly rescue as many plants as I possibly could, and grow them in a safe place. - Rich

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hi Ali

Yeah im gonna agree with rstivertsen with the taking wild neps if you are sure that the site is gonna be destroyed or something.To me we should only take it if we are 100% sure that they are gonna cut them all down,and after that should plant the nep to another site maybe and not take it to your own home.Well thats just my opinion

Ken

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

If I had the chance, I would SUE THOSE RETARDED ROAD CONTRACTER! It is such a pity to see n. ampularia growing sooo big only to be destroyed. how come nobody appreciates them???

I agree with ken. That blood red gracilis is very rare. Haizzzzz.........unfortunately the law doesn't allow us to save those CPs. its ironic that the government doesn't allow people to take CPs in the wild because they don't want the CPs to become extinct while they themselves are destroying the habitat of neps without even knowing.

Sigh, I wish I could save those plants, I will call that blood red n. gracilis Survivirous. :laugh:

Cheers

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I agree with you guys too.Maybe cuttings without damaging the roots might help it to regenerate.
With this method, we are obeying the laws and saving the plants.
I was just too angry when i saw David's.

Edward,

Already started naming plants ah??

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hehe David, I have a more convincing picture of the N mirabilis. The peristome is so broad as compaired to the mouth, so lovely.

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Below are two more pictures of the upper N.tricocharpa pitcher, loved the shape so much.

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Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Wow, it that a spider on the underside of the lid in the last pic? It's so strange looking.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

That's an ant. :smile:

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I just realised from TS's pictures there were two types of xtrichocarpa. One which is green, ie. both parent gracilis and ampularia is green; and one with speckle, ie. either both or one of the parent is green speckle.

You're picture says it all TS. :laugh: Looks really broad from the angle you shot the picture.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Nice report and pictures David. It's sad to see a natural neps site being destroyed to make way for development. What can we do as a nep hobbyist/conservationist to stop human needs for progress especially in country where conservation issues are always the least important agenda in both general public and goverment minds??

IMHO, I believe we as responsible hobbyist should at least help conservation by collecting cuttings/seeds or need be the whole plant if we know the site is to be develop. There's a fine line between collecting samples from the wild for conservation and greed, so it's up to a individual judgement to decide whether he/she is a conservationist or a conservationist in "disguise".

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I won't feel bad to evacuate all threatened neps from any area just to save the germplasm. Takes long time to develop the genes I don't want to have it wiped out in an instant. The N Gracilis I have is one example. Carried the plant with me for 4 days thru several hundreds of road kilometers and two connecting flight. Now at least one plant from the area is saved... and thriving.

Robert is right, there is a fine line of difference between hobbist/collectors/conservation and commercial selling/selfish indiscriminate collecting. GREED is the key word.

Edwardyeeks, sueing is won't stop work being carried out nor standing in the way of the dozer. Best method is education. Educate the ignorant! The same note, we also have to balance development/progress with nature. For example, KL/PJ was a swamp before development, I am sure they were home to some neps prior to destruction. Again, the irony is there is the balance.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hmm, I agree with you, bactrus. Education is certainly important. Just that on that day, I was a little tired and when I saw those poor CPs, I felt angry. Sigh, I'm still thinking about them now!

Maybe will visit site, I dunno, must see how is survivirous.:smile:

Cheers, pray for the CPs.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Being proactive is also helpful. If you hear that a company might be planning to build over a site with endangered plants or animals on it, you should make it known to them and the government. That way an alternative plan for building might be came up with and hurting that habitat can be avoided.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Ok, I hope I don't get dragged into jail by the ISA for this... :laugh: It does not work here in my country. The focus "in the high places" is always on the development and the people who would benefit from that arrangement. Eventhough the laws are strict on the collection of wild plants/animals, conservation, etc. but the decision from the authorities are most of the time contradictory.

I know that NGOs like Malaysian Nature Society, WWF, etc have been fighting for conservation issues in Malaysia but I see very little changes, not because they are not working hard enough but because of the attitude of those involve in the decision making.

I totally agree with Ban Aik that education is the key, but of course the people who make the decisions must also have a change of heart. We must continue to educate and NGOs must continue to fight the good fight. Just like William Wilberforce who, as a Member of Parliament in the British Empire, navigated the world of 18th Century backroom politics to end the slave trade in the British Empire. It wasn't overnight. It took his health, and entire life but it was worth it.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Agreed. Hence, CPers of this forum, we have a monumental task. Not only we have to take interest and protect CPs but also the biodiversity which supports it. See if I have time to go there next week- work and afterwork I collect.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

In developing countries like Malaysia, priority is usually given to development and wealth creation, so all the talks about conservation and protecting natural flora and fauna will get thrown out of window when there's $$$ involved. Sad to say but this is the thruth and we all know it. I have witnessed a supposely reserved forest been cleared away without any interference from the authorithies, I've personally send the info (pics and location) to local NGO known as MNS and it didn't stop the loggings. So I'm very skeptical what the authorities or legal channel can do for a concerned citizen like me to protect our forest.

I totally agree education to create/increase AWARENESS is the key but this will take a long time for this idea to get established especially in developing countries. So for now, I feel it's up to a few of us that share the same concern to do what little we can to preserve what mother nature has created if we know for sure the site will be gone forever. If the site is in a protected forest reserve, pls let mother nature do the work, so we and our children have the chance to admire and appreciate what she has to offer.... :2thumbup:

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

This is a problem not only in developing countries, such as Malaysia and Indonesia, but here in the USA, in northern New Jersey! A few years ago, I saw a sign by the road, that said "Future Luxury Homes" with McMansions sprawl in this upper middle class neighborhood, but where one of the best stands of the native orchid Cyprepidium acaule grew along with several very rare ferns (Botrichium sp.), and so I went to my local municipality, and spoke with the officials telling them of the protected plants in that area, and that such devestating construction must be stopped.

The signs came down after a week, but several months later, I drove by, and was shocked to see the heavy equipment clearing land, and even noticed the pink flowers of these terrestrial orchids driven into their tracks. I went back to the local municipality, but they refused to discuss the issue with me, other than saying that "everything is legal and proper." In retrospect, I wish that I had gotten the American Orchid Society involved with a court order putting a stop to all development.

Human greed is a fact of life that we have to deal with, unfortunately. Several years ago, I heard of a habitat destruction in Sabah, where N. burbidgea and N. rajah grew, also supposedly protected, for a massive luxury resort and golf course complex that totally wiped out all those plants.

Boker Hill in Cambodia is a more recent account of habitat destruction, without allowing anyone to rescue the doomed Nepenthes plants endemic to the site, just recently described.

Once again, I have no problems if conscientious travelers would harvest some cuttings and/or seed of these plants when they can, and make sure they get into responsible homes where they can survive, and spread into other collections. N. clippeata is totally extinct in the wild now, with only a few plants in some collections scatttered all over the world; Wistuba sells 3 clones.

I hear of limestone quarries where N. northiana grows in northern Sarawak; I hope someone resues these plants before it's too late.

Just my two cents. - Rich

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

The rate nature is falling, sooner or later pretty plants can only be be seen in private collection or just pirctures on teh Web! Pressure on the planet is heavy and getting heavier by the day!

Those days before the communist surrendered, most jungle in Malaysia were prestine, virgin jungle as it was thousands of years ago. The communist actually indirectly protected the rain forest. In fact, I think they should be recognised for this act. Since their surrender in 1989 I think, everything is going. The jungles along the East West highway is just a facade. Look further behind... there is nothing. The jungle raped! (excuse the word but nothing else describe the situation).

Sigh... sad sad sad....

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Sorry David, I didn't know that.

Maybe I should think about this from a lawyer's perspective. "Ok how can we make lots of $$$ from endangered plants and animals?"

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Ummmmmmmmmm........Wellll......... NEVER!!!!.....HEHEHEH

Ken

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Laws are made to be bent. Laws can never be absolute. There is always the grey are which one can thrive in. Thrive not just survive, that is where money is made; also that is where (in our case) nature is destroyed. All depends on humans to keep the balance but since greed is the most common and dominant character in man, the ying and yang is tip off balance.

Also, at times it has to be done. Sacrifices has to be made. So, where the line should be drawn? As more humans emerge on this planet, pressure on nature will become heavier. And always, since the industrial revolution, nature is dispensable... till its too late!

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Law "on paper" without proper enforcement and harsh punishment will not accomplish anything. Many poarches that sell exotic animals and plants only got slap on the wrist when got caught by the law, after that they'll do it again without any remose.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Hi everyone

Hmmm today i feel like giving "negative" post hehe

CPnut lol I didn't even know they just get a nice wacking i thought they go to jail or something..........Well i know its not the right thing but those people who do all these stuff are normally very extremely poor people which have to worry every day what they're family are gonna eat tonight....and so they do all this stuff and risk themsleves(again reminding that its not right).

Well not that i don't appreciate that there are companies or societies that are trying to save the enviroment but i always have this thought in mind that our world will definitly go into a place with hardly any trees and just buildings until even wet countries like ours becomes like a desert and has hot and dry air.But all the good work of all these people helping mother nature should always be supported by everyone or maybe in a sense that we should ummm thanks them???More like appreciate they're work.

Ken

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

What's with the negative attittude? If we keep thinking like this nothing will be done!

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I don't know hahaha

Ken

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I just think that we should do what we can, and if we think negatively, we won't have any hope and we won't do anything.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Money is also on paper. There's no reason for it to be more powerful than the law.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

How you use money is how you can "overcome" the law. It is common all over the world. Humans are plague by greed.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I hate corruption. :glare: Money should never be greater than the law. I know that's how the world is but it doesn't have to be.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

I understand your concern Marigold but you have to understand this world is not perfect... The make up of goverment and society here is totally different than the one in USA or other deleveloped countries... I have the perspective from both coz I've lived in Canada for almost 12 years. I was like you when I just came back a few years ago... full of hope for changes in the mindset of most people here in Malaysia but alas I was very dissapointed but there's hope....

That's why I avocate that we among a few that cares to play a role model to educate others instead of just waiting/relying on the authorities. It doesn't matter how much we can do as an individual or a small group, the most important things is that we're doing something even it might seems very insignificant right now.

There's still hope coz environmental awareness is slowly gaining ground but it's a slow process, I hope by the time when there's enough ppl that care about mothernature, she'll still be around to let us appreciate and inspire us.

Re: N. ampullaria site revisited
 

Agreed! Well put Robert.