Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I have had similar experience dealing with wild nepenthes collector in Thailand when I'm looking for N. kongkandana and N. ampullaria (wild amp is actually very rare in Thailand)... It's a very complicated issue. In one hand, I have to deal with the so called "poarcher" in order to get access to the wild nep poulation. On the other hand, I don't support his activities but I need to rely on him. So, I have no choice but to rely on him to locate those wild nep site in order to observe them and study them (that's how eventually Marcello was able to finish his studies of nep species in southern Thailand).

After sometime I get to know this guy, this "wild nep collector" (out of respect to him) is actually not an evil person at all but since the idea of conservation is not engraved in his mind, he never suspected what he did is of any harm. He is just a normal guy trying to make a living to support his family... So with my constant persuasion, explanation and conservation views, he slowly realized what is happening to the wild neps status in Thailand. He understand now if he keep on doing what's he's doing now, his source of income will not last forever. Now, he played a part in helping us to find, research and record the findings of whatever wild neps left in southern Thailand before it's all gone. He wanted to help the people who are qualified (not me obviously :shy:) to take pics and study the neps in the wild so it can be properly documented before it disappear forever.

hvophuong, I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say with my story. I will not judge you base on the fact that you dug up a few neps (if this is the honest thruth) for your own collection but I implore you to help in whatever way you can to show people with proper qualification (nep researcher) to re-study and re-observe posibbly a nep species that's long forgotten to human knowledge. You may have your reasons and I understand if you hesistate to help others to study the plant. However, please remember for a nep researcher, to study nep in habitat is more important than to study it in cultivation (for example at your own private nursery where you grow these plant). I believe a true nep enthusist will do whatever it can to preserve the wild nep if possible, unless a place with wild nep population is going to be develop and no relevant authority is going to do anything to preserve it, then I feel we as an individual should at least collect some samples and if possible, spread it among cultivation around the world. That's how we can differentiate who's the true nep lover and who's a person trying to make a quick money...

I think all of us should cool down a little not to quickly condem a person(s) whose country don't even have proper regulation to protect our beloved nepenthes. You have to get into their shoes to understand to them, digging up a wild nep in Vietnam, is like digging up a weed to most Vietnamese. Only a few of them aware of their uniqueness and are in the same "wavelength" when it comes to the conservation status of these plants. I hope with this incident, more Vietnamese will be more aware of it and find this interesting enough to spend sometime to understand this unique plant species. We can't really force an idea and expect people to accept it overnight but we can try to educate and influence them so that they can understand what's going on and what's need to be done... Maybe Charles is correct on the "generation" theory for this conservation mindset to sink in but for many place around the world, do we have that much time??

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Hi hvophuong,

Don't worry - everything that has happened has already happened and there's nothing much that can be changed now. It's not worth getting too upset about it. If I was you, I would have a "healthy suspicion" about anyone who showed a strong interest in local Nepenthes or your knowledge about sensitive locations. However, a "healthy suspicion" means that you also give them a chance to prove themselves to be trustworthy first... the best way to do this is for both sides to talk to each other and explain what they want to do and what they are concerned about. It's true that some people lie and cannot be trusted, but most people are OK.

To all you guys in Vietnam who are growing N. thorelii, the best thing you can do now is propagate your plants and keep in contact with each other: ie, form a network. You don't have to make this official and you don't need to be accountable to anyone. If each of you manage to propagate 10 plants (in addition to those that you need for your collection (with a mix of males and females)), you could arrange to re-plant the site with your excess plants (do it during the wet season, when they have the best chance of becoming established). 50 plants should be enough to get the population re-established. The habitat is still OK and if you all work together, the cost to each of you would be minimal, you could all continue to enjoy growing this species, and in the long term the population might recover. Nobody has to admit that they collected anything from the wild and nobody has to be accountable to anyone else. If you achieved this, you would have succeeded in doing something that nobody else has done with Nepenthes anywhere in the world, and you will still have your own plants to grow.

Then, in a few years from now, you could post some photos of the re-established population on the forum and ask people from other countries whether they have achieved anything like this.

Cheers,

Charles

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Dear mr.Charles

thks for yr comment
I will noted :)

Dear NepNut;

thks for yr story. I understand what you said to me.
I'm feel free with yr comment.
But i'm really bored with sb. in room.
they always call asean area is underdeveloped - this is offensive to us while seeing their actions, very contradictions.
i can not say anything more...
i'm sick of, fed up...and ect. with this topic

I didn't understand why admin don't remove all pics. which be stolen fr me ?? what's for ???
is it right with people whom always pround of developed countries:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: ;

with love
hvophuong

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

It's holiday ( Chinese Lunar New Year ) probably admin was out of town.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Well, this is starting to have a very pleasant ending to this thread! Great idea Charles! Perhaps you can eventually meet up with Mr. hvophuong and write something up on this plant, with Mr. hvophuong given due credit for this find.

As Nepenthes enthusiasts, we are very passionate about these plants, especially those that were on the brink of extinction, and haven't been seen in nearly 100 years! We really share the same concerns for these plants, and want to protect them when we find them.

I can understand the skepticism of Mr. hvophuong, and especially with regard to outsiders, considering Vietnam’s history in the last 50 years, quite understandable, but we are becoming a global community now, with internet forums such as this, email, etc, and in this close knit interest circles, almost like an extended family without boarders defined by political agendas and dogmas.

Perhaps Mr. hvophuong might be interested in exchanging seed with some of our CPs that grow in our "back yards" and expand his collection too. Despite my harsh criticisms earlier, I would like to extend a personal welcome to you, Mr. hvophuong, into this CP community as a fellow grower in good faith, so that we all can all share in the knowledge base of these amazing plants, and keep focused on their conservation so that they will still in the wild for our children to observe and enjoy some day. Peace. :1thumbup: - Rich

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Photo deleted.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I think i needed to said something for the VN community. They are not as selfish as your can imagin. They are just trying to protect their country after so many years of foreign country coming in to ravage their country before. Also there are lots of pro CPs growers in VN, i had deal with them.
If they are not so active in this or other english written forums, because they feel more comfortable with their own community. But some of them did go to those chinese forum, i know most of them from there. I believed that there are more N. thorelii in the wild in VN. And this place can be turn to farm over night!!! Some of the VN guys are trying their best to propogate them, and the result is good. These plant are fast grower. Guys, do give them some time, eventually, the whloe world will flood with this plant.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Can anyone tell me what is these:

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

Delwin, I think most people here would be able to tell you that those plants are nepenthes.. :p but what type, we wouldn't be sure as there are no visible pitchers.

Re: In search of Nepenthes thorelii
 

I think you should follow the topic of this thread*biggrin2* No problem:biggrin: