Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Hi just want to share some pic of my pond

introducing the plant in the pond was on may 2008:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...ond24mei08.jpg

on june 2008 :
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...un08resize.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...ne08resize.jpg

on july 2008:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...L082resize.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...DROA6JUL08.jpg


and the last pic on august 2008:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...droaugust1.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...droaugust2.jpg

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Well done! Good to see these plants finally growing so well in Indonesia and Malaysia! - Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Rich, Looks like you're leaving quite a legacy in Indonesia and Malaysia.

Kim, Your pond is doing so much better than mine. Indoors or covered? Well mind has been too exposed to the elements. They're not doing too well. So, instead I have shifted them into my apartment's balcony. From three 1half strands, now my betta pot is swamped.

I noticed growth is irregular as there isn't enuf sunshine and when they grow under lotus leaf. Got a bit of algae problem. You're okay with algae?

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Nice, very nice. I would think there are wild colonies in Indonesia. It is found in Japan and Northern Australia, yet I cannot find locations for the waterwheel in between the two above locations.

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Ban, I could live with that! :1thumbup:

@ Khoas, I've always wondered about that too, that Aldrovanda is found north and south of Malaysia and Indonesia, including Africa, Japan, and many European countries, but hasn't been found (at least recently) in your countries. It should do well in rice paddies, where the shallow dystrophic water and the roots of the rice should provide fine companion plants. Any shallow pond, or swampy grassy meadows should provide suitable habitats.

Those tall monocot companion plants provide the required amounts of CO2 on a constant basis. Kims last pic shows a good presence of these companion plants, whose roots spread out, and get under the Aldrovanda; they also absorb the excess nitrogenous mater that Aldrovanda releases from their captured prey. Without this reciprocal, symbiotic (mutualism) relationship, algae becomes a problem.

A healthy population of copedpods, small snails, and other zooplankton also feed on the algae that may attack the Aldrovanda, and get caught in their traps, keep them growing and dividing, in fact, during a mosquito outbreak, they feed so heavily on the mosquito larvea that they branch constantly, almost every few axils.

It's a pretty complicated relationship for such a simple looking rootless plant.

They also seem to do better in shallow water, only a few inches (about 10 cm) deep so that they are closer to those roots of their companion plants. Otherwise the CO2 become too diluted. They can even survive being dried out without any standing water at all for several days, even weeks.

Again, good to see these plants finally making a presence in this part of the world! :1thumbup: - Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Maybe that is my problem. Took out lots of companion plants to provide space for the Aldro.

Rich, you might think I am sick. I have betta in the pond too (Think they're contributing to algae growth, these B. spendens are breeding and I never see any fries. Think they are consumed by the Aldrovanda. Yup, checked yesterday, there are multiple branching. Sick ah?

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Kim,
Your pond looks so healthy. Can't seem to find any algae growth. Very ehalthy indeed.

Anybody has experience growing them indoors under growlights? Tried once with some plants from Ban Aik but I killed them. I sure would like to try again.

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Dave, Aldrovanda grows incredibly fast, much faster than terrestrial CPs. Some people have managed to get the tropical forms growing indoors, but it's extremely labor intensive and expensive, with CO2 pumps and all, and the plants still don't get the same red color and robust stature as they should.

The best way is to grow them outdoors, in a shallow pool with large grass-like plants that have massive root systems, and have the Aldrovanda strands growing in just a few inches of water directly above those roots. - Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Thanks to Richard, he's sure leaving legacy in (if I can say) south east asia :1thumbup:
I do have some problem with algae when the colour of the water become clear and bright I noticed that algae are attacking some of the plant's axis.
Then I put more leaf litter, after a week the water become dark and the algae has gone.

Bactrus: I grow aldro outdoor, the pond receive about 3 hours of sunlight.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...oraldro500.jpg

David: I do have tried to grow them in small aquarium with a co2 reactor, but I've kill them too. never give up I'll try it again. :tongue:

Sorry for my poor english hope you can understand what I'm writing....
[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Windows/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Thanks Rich and Kim.

A few more questions... Would there be a difference in cultivation for the non-tropical aldrovanda, ie. the green ones from Australia? Do you think it might work if I grow them in a large tank? Perhaps I shall try and see.

Is growing other massive root semi water plants / water plants and placing dried leaves in the water the only way to get rid of algae? I tried putting one cherry shrimp in my aldro tank together with dried leaves and other water plants the last time but it did not work.

Also can I know what media mix all of you use for the bottom of your tank? I read that we should use peat, but is this "peat" or sphagnum peat? I understand that some growers use normal soil.

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

I would avoid using any peat, as it seems to promote algae blooms, and lowers the pH too much; in my outdoor pond they grow best in areas where there is a lot of clay, (pH=7.0), and leaf litter from Phragmites, Carex, Typha, and Juncus plants, sometimes in less than 5 cm or water, (or out of water all together for a while).

Perhaps some of the "burnt earth" might help, as it's some form of a clay based substance. The important part is the root systems of large monocot companion plants, and being in close proximity to them. Also, the population density of the zooplankon is higher, more concentrated in shallow depths. Growing Aldovanda in too deep conditions was my problem too when I first started growing them. - Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Just want to find out more... What happens when Aldro are kept in too deep water? Why is it crucial for Aldros to be in close proximity to the root system of monocot companion plants?

I think I now have a picture in my mind of how I want to set up my tank. Thanks Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

David,

When Aldrovanda are grown in too deep water, the CO2 levels are too diluted, and dispersed, and become ineffectual, also, the population density of the plankton community is less concentrated; this is how Aldrovanda feeds; they need BOTH CO2 and prey in large amounts on a daily basis!

Also, the roots of these plants absorb and quickly assimilate the excess nitrogenous matter that the Aldrovanda gives off, as the result of feeding, which reduces the risk of the oppertunist effects of fibrous algae attacks in response to the excess nitrogenous matter released by the Aldrovanda as a reult of a feast in palnkton.

- Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Rich,

May I know your opinion about the floating water lettuce on Kim's pond, would you say it is beneficial to Aldros or not? can't figure out of it's a monocot or dicot though.

My pond currently has quite a lot of java moss too, would that compete against Aldros?

Kim, about your water lettuce, don't you have problems with them getting out of hand and covering the whole pond? I have another pond that is over run by them, because it is a bit hard to get to that pond and clean it off excess plants. I gave a bit to a friend of mine, and his pond got over run with it that you can't see any water under them.

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Thanks Rich for your explaination. I'm smarter a little now. :)

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Australian Aldrovanda is mixture of tropical and subtropical to warm temperate forms. It only found in northern Western Australia, Northern Terrority, and Queensland. Just check CP of Australia vol 3 and there is location in north New South Wales at Evan Heads which is borderline subtropical in climate.

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Hey Arvin, water lettuce (Pistia stratiotes) is actually in the fern allies group, along with Azola and Salvinea which reproduce so rapidly that they are illegal in several states here in the USA, considered as aggressive invasive exotics.

Some people use water hyacinth (Eichhornia), which are also illegal in some states for the same reason, are monocots, but their roots go directly downward, and don't get directly under the Aldrovanda strands where they can release the CO2 directly onto them.

Even decorative grasses can be used as companion plants for Aldrovanda and their roots will spread out from the bottom of their pots and get under the strands, and quickly absorb and assimilate the excess nitrogenous matter released by the captured prey. Leaf litter can also help control algae and is a food source for some zooplankton. - Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Rich,

Thanks very much for your reply, but sorry I didn't quite absorb it all. Noted about invasive species warning though, but yes they are found locally (I think native).

Water lettuce is it a monocote?
Hyacinth monocote?

The problem you mentioned is that their roots might not go directly with Aldos, but if they can be quite near to Aldros they can give some benefit? (Again sorry to be a bit thick tonight).

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Arvin, Not to worry.

Water lettuce is it a monocot? - No, it's a fern.
Hyacinth monocot? - Yes, but their roots are not close enough to the Aldrovanda, and they compete with them for sunlight and surface area.

Java Moss is a rootless moss, and competes with Aldrovanda for the available CO2. It is great for breeding fish, but not so much for Aldrovanda. - Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Thanks for the reply, oh man I guess I need to do some more research and go to the garden shop to find me some water loving monocotes. I posted somewhere before that Rice is one, and lilies are too, lillies are possible but rice, not practical. You mentioned decorative grass, but I am not sure what they are and how they look like, we'll try to research.

Meantime need to figure out how to reduce the number of javamoss in our pond :)

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Yes have a lot of problem with those plant due to its quick grow, I have to get rid some of the water lettuce every weeks or two.
if not they will cover the whole pond.

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Yeah they are fast growing, they covered one of our ponds like crazy and my friend who I gave a few to was complaining about them after a few months!

I am wondering that because Rich (if I read it correctly) mentioned that they really don't contribute much to Aldro maybe we should consider not putting them with Aldros? Then again why fix something that is working in your pond at least! :)

My brother will not like it when I do take off all those javamoss in the pond too! :)

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Used to have them. When they are overgrown, I'll just harvest them to be use as mulch.

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Just to correct a common misconception - Pistia is a member of the aroid (Araceae) family. This group of plants have very diverse forms which include caladiums, Zamioculcas (the feng shui plant frm Zanzibar, lol), the devil's ivy, and arum lilies. Pistia produce rather small flowers that has a spathe and spadix (the di*ck in a sheath flower type). It is a monocot. Duckweed (lemmna) and watermeal (wolffia) are other examples of aquatic aroids.

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Hey you are right Poweramps, I found this website that confirms that they are in fact monocots!

http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/node/328

I wonder rsivertsen if this means that water Lettuces can be a good companion for Aldros?

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

They, and water Hyacinths, also monocots, both compete for surface area with Aldrovanda, and prevent them from getting sunlight, also their roots don't always get directly under the Aldrovanda.

The best companion plants are those that are rooted in the shallow detritus layer, and have their roots spread out just a few inches under the Aldrovanda strands, or even better yet, commingled with them, and have long leaves and stems that rise well above the surface to allow full direct sunlight to get to the strands. :1thumbup: - Rich

Re: Aldrovanda in Indonesia
 

Thanks Rich, so I guess grass type water plants then. :)

TTFN
Arvin