Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

Hi, i need help from any sifu to ID this plant coz it turn out to be a female plant. I bought it from cbkhoon, from this thread
https://forum.petpitcher.net/showthread.php?t=9507
it should be plant #18
need ID so that i know the hybrid plants that i'm going to get from the seeds... *biggrin2*
Many THANKS in advance...

the plant pitcher is on the background, highlighted in circle
Attachment 5224
the young pitcher
Attachment 5226
the flowering plant...
(picture taken after i've pollenate with my own stock pollen)
Attachment 5225

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

hello! That's N. mirabilis var. globosa

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

Then how about the pitcher on the foreground of the 1st picture? The one that is full red in colour...is it N. mirabilis var. globosa to?I got it along with the other plants from cbkhoon thread.

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

to me both of the plants look the same... :)
now i can label it....
THANKS...

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

Khoon Chee Boon's plants are seedgrown, so there are some variation. To me, it looks like N. mirabilis var globosa. The one I have from KCB is the same as your redder one, zulteh.

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

Zulth, in case we're talking about home-made hybrids, I can't guarantee my identifications. Globosa and mirabilis are the same a part from the pitchers, and a young very good looking mirabilis can look like a young very bad looking globosa. The hybrid x kuchingensis is mirabilis x ampullaria. Now, if some people - I don't see why :) - are so brave to cross mirabilis x globosa or mirabilis x kuchingensis or globosa x kuchingensis, you see how the resulting seedlings - in their range of variation - can look like anything :)
The leaf base on a climbing stem and a very close look to the indumentum would help to see the presence of ampullaria.

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

mirabilis x globosa / mirabilis x kuchingensis / globosa x kuchingensis
all have mirabilis kind of pitcher.....

So, the only way we can tell if the plant is a hybrid with xkuchingensis is to look for ampularia trait that is if any indumentum present.

But what about if the hybrid is mirabilis x globosa, the plant pitcher would be in between...no longer than mirabilis and no shorter than globosa. But then again the variation of the pitcher from a pure sp. is diverse. So we can't really tell the plant is a pure sp. of globosa or a hybrid with mirabilis.:confused:

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

Exactely. Unfortunately it's impossible to distinguish a pure globosa from a globosa x mirabilis. That's why it's useless and dangerous to make this hybrid in cultivation just for fun or because someone had mirabilis and globosa flowering together. The main globosa feature is the very variable position of the pitcher hip, which gives the pitchers their typical globose shape. The pitcher hip in globosa can vary from being absent to be just above the midline. Differently from what many people think, the fact that the hip on a globosa plant is just above the midline, doesn't mean it's a hybrid with mirabilis. It just belongs to the normal range of variability of globosa in the wild, in both Phang-nga and Trang, the two provinces where this taxon grows. In Phang-nga, globosa and mirabilis can grow side by side, occupying different ecological niches and remaining separate taxa, and of course, even there, globosa has a variable pitcher hip. At that point it's impossible to know if a particular plant with a pitcher hip just above the midline is a (rare?) mirabilis x globosa backcross or a just a variable globosa. In Trang the two taxa don't grow together, and yet you have the same variable pitcher hips in globosa.
There are other small features typical of globosa (to read the description on my website, click on my signature), but they are hard to use to split a hybrid from a pure globosa. Usually in cultivation globosa and mirabilis x globosa are labelled correctly anyway, so if you bought your plant as globosa, it should be globosa.

About the hybrid with ampullaria, don't just check for any indumentum in general, because even mirabilis and globosa are hairy. You should check for the typical indumentum of ampullaria. Even better, just check the leaf base on the climbing stem (at the rosette level, all species look the same), because ampullaria and globosa/mirabilis are very different.

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

So to sum it up, it's ok/safe to ID both the plants as globosa for now... at least untill I find an evidence of ampularia trait on it.

For your infomation, the plants have not go into its climbing stage yet. I have the plants for only about a year now and both the plants is no longer then a foot tall. Actually i find it a bit odd that the plant has started to produce flower at such an early stage...any comment on that?
From what I know, a plant must go into its climbing stage first, then only it will produce flower if the conditions is right for it...

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

flowering at that stage is normal, sometimes they vine for meters, sometimes they flower when they're just shrubs. Some species of the thorelii aggregate flower at the actual rosette level and that's quite peculiar.

Your plant is already vining, and if it wasn't because we need more proves to say that, I would say that this kind of "thick vining" is typical of females, while males produce the much longer and faster growing internodes and proper vines. You can take a picture of the upper half of the stem, let's have a look.

Anyway, the page where you bought the plant says "no id, it could have some thorelii in it", you say "probably it's n. 18". I don't understand how it is possible to produce, buy and sell plants without having idea of what they are :) But at this point that could be (globosa x andamana) x (globosa x mirabilis) x (kuchingensis x mirabilis) :D
Plus, if you'll use it to make other similar hybrids, the actual ID becomes less important.

To prevent other people to fall in the same problem, don't label these plants as globosa, please label them as ?.

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

Hi, well I have took a picture of it. But let me explain about my stament "should be plant #18". From the page I did made a purchase for plant #18. But when I received the plant it does not look the same as in the picture. Note on the shape of the pitcher mouth. The one i get is more rounded compare to from the page picture is more to ovate shape. So I e-mailed to check on it.
This is the picture taken went I received the parcel:
the plant
Attachment 5237
the pitcher
Attachment 5238

The respond I get was that the plant I've received is not plant #18. So he send me another plant that to him should be the plant. :spinning:
And this replaced plant is the one that turns out to be a female....The plant that is wrongly send is the one that is on the foreground of the 1st picture from the 1st post.

Now, back to our discussion....
so we are back to squre one....no ID for the plant.:crying:
anyway, the picture...
the stem
Attachment 5242
the shoot
Attachment 5243

And while we are at it, the picture of the 'wrong' plant....
the stem and shoot
Attachment 5239
the pitcher
Attachment 5240
Attachment 5241

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

oh, this is interesting.

The first plant has a leaf base that doesn't look like pure mirabilis/globosa (the vegetative parts of the two are identical). And the indumentum looks a bit different, maybe even absent, but the flash on the leaves doesn't help. You should ask where this "globosa x thorelii" is coming from (ask the seller). If it's home-made, we're still in trouble because it could be anything. You can send me some more photos of this kind to rafflesiana@yahoo.com, so we don't fill this place with my inspections :)

The second plant, the "wrong one", has leaf base and indumentum typical of globosa/mirabilis, so it should be globosa. For this one maybe you should wait until the stem becomes more or less twice longer, so we can make sure there is no decurrency or alae on the petiole.

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...
 

As requested, I have send more picture to your email. Sorry about the flash...I just come back from work and it was raining that day. So it's dark and I have to use the flash. :P

PS:Will let you know soon about the seeds origin.

Re: Need ID for this FEMALE plant...