Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Hello,
Here is one of my last papers. It is an account on N. thorelii . It summarizes all our current knowledge on this enigmatic species. It has been published in the appendix of Stewart McPherson's last book.
http://www.carnivorousplants.it/thorelii.history.pdf
Cheers,
François.

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Thanks François for your contibutions... but I really hope this won't be your "last" ever paper on Nepenthes...*biggrin2* Good work !! :1thumbup:

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Does the phrase "not hipped" refer to having no "shoulders"? I just wonder
http://www.neofarmthailand.com/image...7/Viking-C.jpg
http://http://www.neofarmthailand.co...7/Viking-C.jpg

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Yes, that part of the pitcher is called hip, and it seems that while some species have a stable hip in the middle or lower part of the pitcher, some others have a hip that can be in the middle or along the whole upper part and even absent, that giving a rounder shape to the pitcher.
A curious thing that I would like to understand more, is that "mirror" species like andamana-suratensis, kerrii-kongkandana, mirabilis-var.globosa and probably others seem to split one from the other by using that feature, I don't know why.
Plants of var. globosa have been classified in grades depending on where the hip is, but that's a horticultural thing, as "the upper goes the hip and the better the pitcher looks" :) It has nothing to do with taxonomy, as in the wild you can find var. globosa plants with hip in all positions, randomly going from the middle to absent.

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

It's funny that one of my nepenthes named as "thorelii" has globose shape like the one in the picture (in the pdf), except that my plant is slightly hipped :laugh:
The whole plant
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/...99daa00e_b.jpg
The pitcher
http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...cture114-1.jpg

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Hi Tan, nice plant :) Well, N. kampotiana also has round pitchers and it grows in southern Vietnam. It's much more common in cultivation and of course it's sold as "thorelii". But it's glabrous, while N. thorelii is hairy. At the bottom of this page you can find a table to distinguish all the Indochinese species: http://www.carnivorousplants.it/desc.holdenii.pdf
If your plant is hairy, congratulations, it's probably one of the poached plants that has been put for sale in your Country. Actually, even if it's kampotiana, I can see a massive rootstock at the base of your plant, and that makes me think that it has been poached from the wild anyway...

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Hey tanphobia,
Good to have you in Petpitcher. I have to say your nep is an interesting specimen. Do you have more, mind share more detailed pics of the leaves, stems and pitchers?? Thankyou.

François and Cello,
So is this possibly a N. thorelii ??

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Well, it's a young specimen, so the leaves and structure of the plant are not very clear, and a kampotiana with red pitchers looks exactely like that and it's quite common. The only difference is in the indumentum. If you have a hairy plant from Vienam that looks like that, yes, you probably have a N. thorelii.

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

I took the picture of the leaves this morning and the funny thing is that there are hair on the leaves but they don't stick out, as if they are glued to the leaves. Here are the pictures. Sorry if it's blurry :tongue:
https://forum.petpitcher.net/%3Ca%20h...h_IMG_5392.jpg

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...h_IMG_5392.jpg

http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/a...h_IMG_5395.jpg
So, what do you think ?

https://forum.petpitcher.net/%3Ca%20h...%20%3E%3C/a%3E

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

hmm....i think at last we get to see the holy grail of N. thorelli 'live'!!!

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

What do you think Cello? Do we have a winner here?? Very exciting... *biggrin2*

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Nope, sorry, I know what you mean with "hair stuck to the leaf", like they are painted, and that's a common feature for all these species... if that's the only hair you can find (a part from tendril and pitcher), then you have a N. kampotiana...

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

'Cello will have the definitive answer but for the moment I'll point out something he taught me last year...If you look with a magnifying glass you 'might' find that what look like little white hairs are actually, as he put it "painted on"! If you use a toothpick and look closely you'll notice you can't 'move' the hair. It is actually a "pigment of your imagination"!'

Anyway, welcome Tanphobia! And Thanks! It's always a bit exciting when somebody in Vietnam posts pictures of a potential N. thorelii. We never know when someone will come up with the real thing! Through these forums and some of the very qualified taxonomists that check in here, you'll get some good information that will help ID your plants.

See the papers written by Francois and Marcello, especially the new ones from the last year. They have the best and most up to date information available on most all the Indo-Chinese species of nepenthes. (There are links for both of their papers on this forum - email me if you have trouble finding them).

Finally, you will find that everyone around here really wants to see these plants found, but we also want to see them protected and left to grow in nature. If it turns out you (now or later) have found the long lost Thorelii, please think and act wisely, because it may truly be so rare that one greedy poacher could wipe it out of existence forever! Talk to Francois and Cello, they are, and have been, working to actually give these types of plants the very best chance of surviving.
~Shawn

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Thank you all! If I have a chance I will talk to the seller because he grows LOTS of N."Thorelii". I'll ask if there's any plants with globose pitchers and hairy leaves. He actually got the interest in CP from his grandma! :laugh:
Oh and one question : Is N.Thorelii in the verge of extinction right now ???

Re: Nepenthes thorelii paper
 

Maybe it's already extinct! Someone in an other forum said that the only plant in cultivation right now could be in Singapore, because the 2 plants growing in Vietnam died. Tell your friend, the seller, to NOT collect WHOLE plants in the wild, but just seeds and cuttings. These will take a bit more to grow, but the plants in the wild will survive, the plants in cultivation will be much more, and in the long term he will make MORE money and the plants in the wild will survive. Don't buy plants with VERY large roots like yours, they are obviously very old plants, taken out of the soil in the wild and put in a pot. All lowland Nepenthes species in your Country are in the verge of extinction because of human development (cities and plantations) and because people collect whole plants (not just cuttings and seeds)to sell them to unaware growers.