Re: Poacher
 

The task seem uphill and it seems to fall on th fact that we could only slow the down the inevitable... that is the lost of Nepenthes and their habitat in the wild. Perhaps if we could delayed the process we could give enough time for scientists and experts to study the plants and get them into cultivation commercially before we lost them in their natural habitat forever. At least our children's children can read about them and study them through these records, and buy a potted plant fom nurseries. It is not ideal I know.

I met with an organisation involve in the "green" movement of promoting conservation and good conservation practices in Malaysia. Their idea was to share and inform. It seems through this way, people response more positively. They discourage their members from arguing with others who have different ideas or does not support conservation. All they did was just to inform and it worked pretty well for them. Whenever, they organised an event like planting trees, cleaning up the beach, etc. the response is always overwhelming.

Re: Poacher
 

Maybe at the least we can all agree that a protected area is "sacred grounds" I would subscribe to that at the least and really not bother any plant in that location.

May I ask, seed collection is also not allowed in Malaysia?

David, I think that conservation of one particular species is harder to do and educate than say treeplanting activities and beach clean up. That is the problem that we face.

The main concern is:

Would education and information about the plight of the nepenthes in our countries bring about more good in conserving them? Or would it open up to more interest in keeping them and then poaching? I tend to not want to risk it as of now, until at least there is enough supply of commercially grown nepenthes to quench the thirst of would be enthusiasts.

TTFN
Arvin

Re: Poacher
 

I second your proposal.

Ok, I won't give my comment on this but will just quote the law. The law states that "no plant or part of the plant is to be removed without a plant collection permit".

Yes, I agree that it is a difficult decision to make. Actually one member asked me before whether what I am doing with PetPitcher is helping or actually creating more harm. It is the same situation with books, eg. books by Dr. Charles Clarke and Ch'ien Lee. But I think we cannot have one without the other, meaning we cannot promote conservation without also indirectly giving information that poachers would take advantage of.

We should promote nurseries offering artifically propagated plants and offer information on new discoveries and habitat locations to scientists/researchers like Dr. Charles Clarke and Ch'ien Lee so they can reach the plants in time before they are gone.

Re: Poacher
 

now that I feel the law is so funny, as stated "no plant or part of the plant is to be removed without a plant collection permit", but developers "collect" and "kill" on the spot as allowed by our government without those "permit".

As for plant that are in national park, those are almost guarantee to be safe, so no point "helping" them to live, but for reserves forest...in Malaysia, any forest other than national park can be cleared up once something happens under the table, example would be Air Hitam reserves forest in Puchong(quite near to my house), given the name reserves but they are clearing it up, then i went on to serch that spot in google map again, the entire name of Air Hitam reserves forest was gone...I wonder what happen, another would be Tanjong Malim reserves peat swam, they clear up space for road widening project...with all those non-sense from our government, my doubt is which sources can or cannot be trusted...help saving the plant or not is still a confusion, so I'll just take all those advise from senior CPers to leave them alone as long as those places are not in the middle of being clearing up:1thumbup:

Re: Poacher
 

I think in order to raise awareness and to educated the general public, more exposure will be needed, there's no way around it, it's a two edged sword.... :glare:

Any of you ever saw those workers with weed trimmer keeping our roadside and highway looking tidy and clean?? Do you think they care about nepenthes when they're doing their job? Can you blame them? Are they doing something against the law when they cut away those nepenthes??

To them, nepenthes is just weeds that need to be cut to keep things tidy... :crying: If the bush is too thick, they will just light it up and let the fire finish the job... So, are they criminals??

Yes, some neps are quite tough and after being trimmed, cutted and set ablazed... they still come back to live (I'm not making this up, this is from personal site observation). However, for those more fragile neps.... sorrylah... :sweating: The real problem is not so much of how many plants got taken by people but the lost of habitat which I'm very sad to say it's an unstopable force...

As sooxiwei put it elegantly "I feel the law is so funny".... *biggrin2*

In the real word, law was made to be broken, a forest reserve is just a "reserve" for when there's no more jungle to be cut down. I have personally witness so many supposely "Reserved Forest" being clear away in northern Perak namely the Belum Reserved Forest and a few other.... I know because I used to sport fish actively and always travel to those supposely prestine forest.... Sorry for being so negative but I can't help it after witnessing so many "law" being twisted for the benefit of a few without any regards for mother nature.... :thumbdown:

Re: Poacher
 

These heart breaking things are not only occurring in developing countries like Malaysia but right in my own backyard and neighborhood here in North West New Jersey, USA! There was an undeveloped parcel of land near my house with a large and healthy population of several terrestrial orchids, the Pink Lady Slipper (Cyrepidium acaule) and several small "wood orchid" species, (some I have never seen before), among other rare ferns (Botrichium sp), and other things. One day I noticed a small sign by the roadside which said "Oakwood Village coming soon" (which is another McMansion development of large million dollar homes that are built in large numbers and very fast). I went to the local municipality and informed the building inspectors that development on this site could NOT proceed as it is home to several orchid species which is fully protected by strict EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) laws. They said they would "take care of it". Only 10 months later, even when many of these orchids were in full bloom, the site was cleared and these orchids lay crushed in the tracks of heavy trucks and tree removal equipment. I regret to this day not getting the American Orchid Society (AOS) involved with legal action to put a stop to that development. When large sums of money are involved, (closed room dealings and all), rare plant habitat is the LAST thing that people in authority are concerned with. They have bills to pay like everybody else, and if they get the chance to net a windfall of cash just to put a rubber stamp on a piece of paper which would allow a developer to proceed as planned, .... well Planet Reality is what it is.

I had few interesting conversations with Stewart McPherson when he was in town, and he told me that they offered a ride to a local woman walking by the roadside in Sulawesi, and told her of the plants that he was photographing. She told him that she knew of a place nearby where they grew and took them to a farm field where cows were grazing, and this would be routinely burned down when the weeds got too thick. There wasn’t any typical ferns or other companion plants typical for Nepenthes anywhere in sight, and wasn’t even in a mesophytic (wet and swampy) condition. But scattered in the tall grasses were several N. maxima plants! He said that if it weren’t for this woman pointing out these plants, they never would have discovered them. They were hidden in the fields, and may have gone on for decades without being noticed. Some of these plants can survive mild fires, but nothing can survive bulldozers and massive clearing due to development.

I remember when a N. burbidgea and N. rajah site in Sabah was bulldozed into oblivion to make way for a luxury resort and golf course. The site was officially off limits and private property but a few local people risked getting arrested for trespassing and managed to rescue some seed of these plants and got them to reputable TC growers and others. - Rich

Re: Poacher
 

Reserves are just......protected sometime then when the government think there is no place to use anymore then they use thos reserves?Kinda like a back-up place for me.....

Re: Poacher
 

I think that even though it seems that sometimes higher powers are at work against conservation and it would be like "a dog barking to move a mountain", I am glad that every now and then these threads and discussion on this topic comes up on the forum.

I think it is good as it reminds us of the issues that faces our "best friend"... our beloved Nepenthes and we should just all do our part, no matter how small and ineffective we think it may be. Just be persistent and consistent.

We may not have the power to change the world, but we certainly have the power to change ourselves. As arvin explained, it has to start from us.

Re: Poacher
 

David,
Do you feel this is a "sticky" worthy thread??

Re: Poacher
 

I agree Dave that it has to start with us. Rich's actions with the Orchids is however a next step, but as he said on hind sight, Amerian Orchid Soceity might have been more effective if they were behind him.

You guys remember the "Pelican Brief"? I am sure there are other incidents like this as well. However if we are realistic we know that plants will not be prioritized versus "the greater good" of say a new highway.

I'm not a lawyer, but if you think of it logically "no plant or part of the plant is to be removed without a plant collection permit" only pertains to collection, the road clearer or the bulldozers were not collecting, they were clearing them. :( As mentioned here in my country, you need a permit to cut down a tree, even if it's in your own land! Crazy aint it? But then if you are an eco warrior, it works... then again it does not work on nepenthes and of course government road works and stuff. Plus the mentioned back room discussions, in most cases blanket permit to clear trees and forest for some kind of project.

I guess at the end of the day, a realistic target is to get ourselves organized, maybe Affiliate with a bigger similar club or Non Government Organization that is out to conserve. Is there a big plant or eco conservation organization in Malaysia? And maybe get a senator or whathave you to back up the effort.

The best that we an hope for, for now, is if there is a road work going on that will hit vital Nepenthes sites that we know, that either they maybe consider diverting a bit to spare that site. Or at least allow volunteers to work with the workers to collect plants and transplant them to the nearest location. (usually the cost should be fully or partially sponsored by the company or government that is doing this project in the first place). The decision or study if it is vaiable to transplant or that it is necessary to divert the project has to be in coordination with botanist expert.... Oh the beaurocracy.

I also "hope and dream" that in the future if there are resorts being build, that the organization can approach the owner, explain the situation and heck use nepenthes as a feature or a centerpiece of their project. Golf courses with nepenthes in the scenery for example! Cool eh? Heck if I had enough local neps, I'd really start talking to a golf course club that I am a member of that is just right for such a project. But the key is to talk to them before the project begins.

End of my rantings :)
TTFN
Arvin