N. Smilesii

[alpiner]

Hi Kevyn,
Good informative thread. Unfortunately my wife has taken my camera to business trip, so will take picture when I hv it back. I do hv older photos, but it's within hundreds of photo due to poor photo management. With 2 schooling kids and 1 toddler crying for mother, don't think I've time or mood to switch on my home pc.
I'll post whichever happen first...

[kevyn chan]

alpiner,

thanks, however the credits should go to marcello, i might have started this thread but most of the information is from marcello...

i hope more people will share their plants from the "thorelii mess" so that our plants can be properly IDed thus create awareness for everyone...

will wait for your pics collection and happy babysitting!!

[alpiner]

As promised, here's my photo for neofarm 'thorelii' and comparison with smilesii. Hopefully marcelo is still around.
1. Newly opened 'thorelii' pitcher, from a rather young plant. Let me know if you prefer an older pitcher that shows more peristom.

2. Comparison with Smilesii side by side. Smilesii is more elongated, and spots within pitcher

[kevyn chan]

hmm..the neofarm "thorelii", you have the older pitcher's pic? mine is without the blotches in the pitcher too...the smilesii that you have is from which source?

[marcellocatalano]

hi there,
spots inside the pitcher and its length are unfortunately useless for identification. Again:
1) seller, code, nickname given by seller and province of origin can help (for both your "smilesii" and "thorelii")
2) show the whole plants and let's see if we can check and find some features even if it's a young specimen.
Cello

[kevyn chan]

attached are the links for the matured n. cf "thorelii"...

what is your comments? pictures and plants belongs to Yuping.
you can find him in FB under Yuping Aping....


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...8814280&type=1

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...2&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...1&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...9&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...8&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...6&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...5&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...4&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...3&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...5&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...3&id=625177280

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...4&id=625177280

[alpiner]

Originally Posted by marcellocatalano

hi there,
spots inside the pitcher and its length are unfortunately useless for identification. Again:
1) seller, code, nickname given by seller and province of origin can help (for both your "smilesii" and "thorelii")
2) show the whole plants and let's see if we can check and find some features even if it's a young specimen.
Cello

Hi Cello,
I bought my plants from other cp-ers. So no code or detailed origin, as compared to buying from vendors. Some photos for nf 'thorelii':-




And Smilesii

[marcellocatalano]

Kevin: that's an interesting plant, I can see that the leaves are hairy, which rules out N. kampotiana, and the pitchers look a bit like N. thorelii. Keep in mind that N. thorelii and N. smilesii might eventually result to be very close (Cheek even said they might be the same thing, but to me that's too extreme), especially because we don't know much about the range of shapes that N. smilesii might have in southern Vietnam, a part from Dalat. We don't know much about N. thorelii, but we know it's hairy like smilesii, while the pitchers are rounder, sometimes (or always?) globose. Ask Yuping where he got his plant, if it comes as a cutting or tuber from a not-well-identified source in Vietnam (=basically one of the plants poached last year) then it's likely N. thorelii.

[alpiner]

Originally Posted by marcellocatalano

your plants are both N. suratensis (red new leaves and acuminate leaf tips are a very good hint, even if the bulk under the lid is missing, but the indumentum should confirm they are N. suratensis). Check the center of the 2 plants: you might notice they have some hair around the base of the leaf, you can post a close up photo of both specimens if you prefer.

Since I've the advantage of touching the plants, I doubt that they're both the same species. The leaf of 'thorelii' is thinner like lowland neps eg viking's. The Smilesii gives me the feeling close to but slight thinner than something like ventrata or xIndah. Even though the smilesii is bigger(~1.5x wider leaf span) than 'thorelii', the leaf is narrower too. With my old eyes, I don't see any hair at the base of the leaf. I can use macro lens this weekend for closeups. Other than the center of the plants, any other locations that'll help to id?

[marcellocatalano]

a photo of the underside of the lid of the latest pitchers for both plants, and a couple more leaf tips for "smilesii" would be good.

On the "smilesii" I can see two acuminate tips (end of the leaf narrowing abruptly and not gradually, as opposite to "acute"). The species of this group that have such feature and linear leaves are N. suratensis, andamana and bokorensis. Honestly this doesn't look like bokorensis or andamana. The hair around the base of the leaf is typical of all 3 species (not 100% sure about bokorensis, that has very variable indumentum). The bulk under the lid is definately diagnostic of N. suratensis. The reddish new leaves are also typical of suratensis. When I say this keeep in mind that there is some variability, which means: bulk under the lid means suratensis, but not all suratensis have bulk under lid; reddish new leaves mean suratensis, but not all suratensis have reddish new leaves; hair around base of leaf means suratensis, but... etc.


Larger and thicker or thinner leaves, as you noticed that, unfortunately are not characters that can be used for an ID, especially for plants in cultivation.