In search of Nepenthes thorelii

[Sockhom]

Hello friends,

I'm writing from Vietnam.
I just spent the last 3 days with Charles Clarke looking after the true Nepenthes thorelii after some pictures appeared on the forum in last november:
http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=34599[/url]
We only had a rough idea of the plants location as the Vietnamese kids who found the plants refused to help me to locate and study them.
After 2 days of investigation, Charles and I managed to find the exact location that the Vietnamese kids showed on their (deleted) pictures (Can I post them again?).
A wonderful swamp with a big population of Nepenthes mirabilis and Drosera and Utricularia everywhere. I never saw such a magnificent population of crimson Drosera indica before.
This must have been the place. After a few hours of research, Charles talked to the only familly of villagers who lived near this swamp and they told that a few months ago, some Vietnamese from HoChiMinh came and dug all the plants.... That's why we found nothing.
They might be some seedlings left but we didn't saw them.
I have to say that I feel angry at the moment and quite sad. These things happen - charles did make the analogy with Nepenthes aristolochioides.
So is N. thorelii extinct?
I don't think so. It must grow in another swamp but as the sprecies grow near human lowland habitations, it will be very difficult to find a place that hasn't been turned into a paddy field in the last century
Tomorrow, Charles and I will visit one of the type locations.
Wish us good luck.

Francois.

[rsivertsen]

Best of luck in your search Francois! So sad that wholesale poaching like this happens. Let's see if anyone tries to unload them on ebay, or one of the forums. These kids could have been heroes in the CP community, and really made a name for themselves, but went for the quick opportunist cashing in on them instead; so sad on so many levels. - Rich

[NepNut]

I sincerely hope you guys will rediscover the true N. thorelii... It's a race against time from development, lost of habitat and over collection. Wish you and Charles all the best !!

[marvin1997]

Well I know something about them but....

[Sockhom]

Hello,

I have checked, with Charles Clarke, some of the type locations today.
There is nothing left as far as we could see but plantations, paddy fields, heveas and houses everywhere. If the species still grows there -very unlikely- it must be in a handful of square meters that will be one day or another wiped out by humans activities.
I have a few locations to check (alone this time, Charles had to go). Let's hope.
Cheers,
Francois.

[NepNut]

Hi Francois,
Very sad news... but there's still hope. If all else fail, try to look for people that are selling wild collected neps, that's probably the only chance you have of locating N. thorelii if you can't find them in the wild. Good luck.

[Robert]

sometimes locating and finding neps can be frustrating. I remembereed the first time when we were searching for northiana we search aimlessly even with info from the locals. Infos of location and datas of pitchers were inaccurate and misleading of words they heard from other hunters and gatherers.

Due to overcollection northiana is becoming rare along the easy and common trails. we widen our search from all the possible existing routes, routes carve out by hunters,gatherers and gold prospectors. we only managed to find the first northiana on our 3rd field trip.

I believed somewhere thorelii still exist. They have been around before human encroach into their territory. with human activities, opening up of land for devp and agriculture pockets of their population will still exist. Extra days will be needed to search around.

[marvin1997]

Robert maybe you can speak to TranMinh..He knows something about them..I dare not speak anything because it was TranMinh who told me that..Classified Information..

[Sockhom]

Hi,

Thanks for the support guys.
Today, I met one of the poachers... Don't ask me how I managed to restrain myself...

All the thorelii were sold, probably in Thailand as there is no real CP market here and most of the plants come from Thailand or from... the wild.
I did see the hybrid between mirabilis and thorelii like the one which appeared on the deleted pictures.

The poacher refused kindly to give me any infos about any other thorelii location pretending he didn't know. Exactly what the other poacher said (and the one we could see with the unrooted plant and the shovel :).

I' m not even mad at these guys. They just have not a single clue about what conservation is. They started a collection of bizarre plants and learned by internet (MY big mistake) that it was a valuable plant. So, they tried to get some monopoly.
Each time I tried to explain conservation issues, a cheeky smile appeared on the face of the poacher as if I was saying a big joke.

They're just kids. I hope they can grow up. Like Charles Clarke told me before he returned to KL, we need at least one generation before hobbyists realize the whole situation.
Now, they're just bullies or selfish kids. Whatever.

I did meet one young 15 years old grower called Tran Minh (a member of this forum) who is really aware - a very nice teenager- and who tries to spread the good word. But no one listen to him. Tran, you just have to keep on.

This was my last day in Vietnam. A failure. I spent the whole day in one of the type location where I extensively searched for some swamps but almost everything has been turned to rubber plantations more than 30 years ago. People remembered the plants though.
Like I already said, N. thorelii might grow somewhere else in some 10 square meters but I just can't afford time and money to do a random search. I will return there only if I have help from the Vietnamese hobbyists. Until, then I will focuse all my efforts on Cambodia where I have full supports fron friends, biologists and NGO who will even grant me some funds for the following years.

I will post some pictures of the thorelii locations quite soon.

Tomorrow, I will return for one week in Cambodia where I will visit a few new locations and doing some work at the herbarium of Phnom Penh.

I' ll keep you updated.

Cheers,

Francois.

[rsivertsen]

What a sad and tragic ending to this saga. The plants could end up anywhere, and the Thailand story could just be a ruse, a decoy to divert attention, but can't be ruled out either as there are lots of nurseries that market Nepenthes; but in this small CP community, with internet forums, email and all, they will eventually be found out. Good to know that 'cello might be able to intercept any illegal plants entering the markets in Thailand.

Too bad these poachers were so short sighted and narrow minded, they probably don't realize that they could have made even MORE money if they did things within the law and conservation, plus they could have been the heroes of the Nepenthes world, and farmed these plants as crops, harvesting seed, and having a continuous supply and income, instead of a quick kill and the shame and disgrace of being world known for poaching every last plant right out of existence in its natural habitat. What a shame.

Let's hope TranMinh finds another site in his country some day. - Rich