cindy: N. adnata and N. sibuyanensis x hamata

[David]

cindy
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N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Thread Started on Nov 15, 2007, 9:57pm » N. adnata (Fauzi)
The plant - barely 3" tall.


The first pitcher formed in my conditions.




N. sibuyanensis x hamata (BE) is pitchering! runk:
There are two pitchers ballooning...I'll post more pics when they are fully developed.



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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #1 on Nov 16, 2007, 3:06am » wow Cindy! so the sibu x hamata can actually pitcher here! How nice!
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #2 on Nov 16, 2007, 11:36am » Audrey, this hybrid is from seeds so each individual will be different. I won't be able to tell if another sibu x hamata will pitcher for me.
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #3 on Nov 16, 2007, 12:35pm » ooo... so depending which parent 'genes' are stronger in that seedling?
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #4 on Nov 17, 2007, 3:46pm » Both N. sibuyanensis and N. hamata does not grow well here outdoors but hopefully hybrid vigor will give it a boost.

Some may turn out more hamata than sibuyanensis...mine seems more of the latter, having rounder pitchers. But if the peristome is like hamata then it is a bonus.
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #5 on Nov 19, 2007, 2:54pm » I was shocked and impressed by your hybrid. The name itself already my life. Hope it turns out stable and can grow on lowland condition.
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #6 on Nov 19, 2007, 9:51pm » Jeff, the pitchers are still ballooning!
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #7 on Nov 20, 2007, 11:30pm » I cannot resist posting the pics before the pitchers develop fully...they are having very nice colour!

First pitcher, 3/4"


Second pitcher, 1"

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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #8 on Nov 24, 2007, 5:12am » Since this plant is a seed origin plant, it should have a better chance to grow to maturity than over a tc one. It will require many long years before even these so-called experts come to realize that anything seed origin as a true seed grown plant will perform greatly over all of the exact same tc clones.
I have experienced these differences between seed original and tc clones. Those of even species from seeds have outperformed almost all of those from tc. Examples include N. lowii (seed grown actually making uppers) while tc plants suffering even to stay alive. It will be much time before many nurseries resort to selling seed grown over tc grown plants.

M
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #9 on Nov 27, 2007, 4:01pm » Talking about N. lowii producing uppers, here's a young plant from TC photographed in 2003:



Four years later the very same plant is here at the 2007 Chelsea Flower show. You can just about see it in the middle.



Then we brought it back from London bare rooted, put it back inot the nursery and it continues to pitcher as if nothing had happened:



Despite it's terrible weakness being a TC plant, it seems to have performed quite well really.

Hmmm.....
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #10 on Nov 27, 2007, 4:10pm » Very good insights you showed on that particular Lowii's journey.

I feel lucky now that I bought a small tc lowii plant from you through Fauzi this year.

Cheers,
Isaac
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #11 on Nov 27, 2007, 4:12pm » 3/4" pitcher is open...not a very interesting peristome yet though.


Seeing double? This is a sibuyanensis pitcher which was produced on the plant I got last December. The plant died this July with the heat.
« Last Edit: Nov 27, 2007, 4:13pm by cindy »Link to Post - Back to Top 165.21.154.75 rainforestguy
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #12 on Nov 28, 2007, 1:32am » Unfortunately growers who grow their highland-intermediate plants in highland conditions, could never know the difficulties in making highland species-hybrids grow well. I am speaking with ACTUAL growing techniques, I also live in the tropics, and after many many years of careful cultivation, I have yet to see tc plants perform well.
I hope for those who are growing both tc and seed grown plants you are already experiencing the great differences in growing them side by side.
Time itself will dictate what growers want and what will sell in the marketplace.
The success stories of plants such as N. sp. Viking, thorelii, rafflesiana, and so forth has not been of tc plants but of original seed grown material, whether from cuttings from older plants or just matured established seedlings. Imagine where we'd be today if N. hamata were available from seed.

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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #13 on Nov 28, 2007, 12:27pm » The so-called "success story" of N. sp. Viking is that it has been pillaged wholesale from it's natural habitat to satisfy the cravings of a few. This is to the undoubted detriment of wild populations.

Fortunately though, seed has been widely circulated and the release of tissue cultured clones in the near future will hopefully alleviate this problem, perhaps in time to save the wild populations from being entirely decimated or perhaps too late. Time will tell.

Of course, as usual, the clones from TC can be expected to be far more vigorous to cultivate than wild-collected plants, being free from nematodes and other pathogens that infest nearly all wild Nepenthes. « Last Edit: Nov 28, 2007, 1:49pm by borneo »Link to Post - Back to Top 124.43.221.122 phissionkorps
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #14 on Nov 28, 2007, 1:20pm » Actually, the species was never formally described, so it's still sp. Viking. Kurata withdrew his proposal, and now feels that it is a geotype of N. mirabilis.
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #15 on Nov 28, 2007, 1:47pm » Thanks Ron, I wasn't aware of that. Guess someone ought to update Wickepedia etc. I've edited the N. globosa reference out of my post.
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #16 on Nov 28, 2007, 2:18pm » To be honest with you...I have no idea what to call the thing (guess I'll stick w/ sp. Viking until its described though).

Regarding affinity to mirabilis, I can see some similarities (like the leaves), but I think its a different species, especially considering its rhizome, and the fact that it has been found growing along beaches, etc. Problem is, it hybridizes frequently with mirabilis in the wild. Of course there are some "pure" mirabilis here and there that look like sp. Viking, and some "pure" sp. Viking that look like mirabilis, which further complicates the matter. Regarding Wikipedia, I got the info from a post by Trent Meeks probably about a month or 2, so its fairy recent devcelopment I suppose. I'm sure he knows more than I do about the situation. As of October of this year, Barry's FAQ still had it listed as "unpublished". I don't know if it was published and retracted, or never published, but I do know that it apparently isn't globosa "yet".

In ref to its conservation status, IUCN has it listed as data deficient. On Nong's site, he says IIRC, it is endemic to an island that only a few locals (I think of the same family) know about...but of course this could've changed. Until someone does some work on the Indochinese Nepenthes, a lot of stuff is up in the air. If the species is endemic to one small island, which is in monsoon territory, outlook looks bleak, so I'm glad it has gotten it into cultivation.

Cindy,
I really hope that those plants take some sort resemblance in the peristome to hamata, but then again....don't we all. While the teeth of predator aren't as pronounced as hamata, the teeth of rokko 'A' x hamata bear more of a resemblance. Here's hoping...

And as I've said before...wish adnata was more available in the US. (or available at all for that matter)


« Last Edit: Nov 28, 2007, 2:25pm by phissionkorps »Link to Post - Back to Top 75.111.173.137Natura non facit saltum
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #17 on Nov 28, 2007, 3:15pm » Tissue cultured plants are just inferior to seed grown plants. A weak seedling can be kept alive and vigorous in vitro and success ending in failure to keep them alive once removed from this perfect environment. For those who have germinated seed, grown them out, have already discovered so many misconceptions regarding nepenthes culture as a whole.

« Last Edit: Nov 28, 2007, 10:39pm by David »Link to Post - Back to Top 74.61.72.115http://www.lhnn.proboards107.com/index.cgi cindy
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #18 on Nov 28, 2007, 6:40pm » PK,
I am already very excited that the hybrid is pitchering for me. There were quite a number of growers here who bought the seedlings from BE but mine is first to pitcher. The peristome is red, which is very promising. Sibuyanensis itself has got quite a defined peristome too but if hamata lends its genes to this hybrid, it will turn out very nice. My concern is also the heat which I have to contend with during the hot months, humidity too can drop pretty low (40%) suddenly at my balcony. I got this plant in September when the weather was beginning to be cooler.

So far, I don't see any sources for N. adnata. This plant was from Fauzi who is also on this forum. Not sure if he ships to US though.
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Re: N. adnata and N. sbuyanensis x hamata
« Reply #19 on Nov 28, 2007, 8:42pm » The 1" pitcher is open. Now this peristome shows more potential.

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