Poaching

[NepNut]

Hi Arvin,
Good point, my intention is not to blame who's at fault but to point out that the law to protect the supposely "protected" species is grossly in adequate to do what's it's supposely intended to accomplish.

FYI, there's already such NGO in Malaysia that known as Malaysian Nature Society. Check it out...

[arvin555]

cpnut, yes that is the one to go with if ever. They have one project already on going against a pipeline project. If the petpitcher group is part of this organization or at least one or two members are members, then you can put forward your concerns with Nepenthes through this organization which has a bigger voice.

In my opinion however, it is best when both parties find a mutually beneficial solution to a problem, rather than hard standing. For example if that pipeline crossed an important nepenthes habitat, of course the first stand is to be a "hard stand", NO! But then one can also find a middle ground and say, okay, show us where you will construct, and then leave the rest of the parts to be protected, and help with the relocation of any plants that will be affected by the construction. Something to that effect.

Of course this time I am talking like an idealist

Yes I agree, the law seemed to have been written against poachers and collectors only, but construction and destruction of the habitat by projects is not really indicated and protected from.

TTFN
Arvin

[marvin1997]

Originally Posted by arvin555

In my opinion however, it is best when both parties find a mutually beneficial solution to a problem, rather than hard standing. For example if that pipeline crossed an important nepenthes habitat, of course the first stand is to be a "hard stand", NO! But then one can also find a middle ground and say, okay, show us where you will construct, and then leave the rest of the parts to be protected, and help with the relocation of any plants that will be affected by the construction. Something to that effect.

Okay,I totally agree with you here!

[paphioboy]

This thread is interesting. This does not directly concern poaching but international trade of threatened species. I find the laws regarding saving those threatened species from habitat destruction instead of letting them being bulldozed over rather unreasonable. Apparently, some laws (such as CITES laws) designed to protect threatened species is not fool-proof because it was originally intended to protect animals, and not plants. Obviously there is a big difference between the reproductive ability of rare mammals (rhinos, orang utans etc) which bear only a few live young a year and plants, which can produce thousands of seeds from a mature plant. Hence, collecting (I mean saving) 1 plant from the wild before it is flattened by a bulldozer and propagating the seeds contributes significantly to the survival of that species.. Just my 2 sen..

[David]

CITES is set up to govern the international trade of endangered species between countries or continents. The laws protecting plants/animals from being poached within a country is the responsibility of the individual government and people in that country. Therefore, it is not a question of the design of CITES laws that is inadequate to protect plants as CITES only governs movement of endangered species between countries.

The reasons why some say that CITES is ineffective is because of the massive coverage of its work worldwide and the fact that in each geographical location or country, the objectives and enforcement is depended on the enforcement agencies in that country. There is no way to monitor closely the enforcement in each of the 170 over countries under the CITES agreement. Their objecives and work are good and I think CITES has help a great deal in conservation todate. I believe if not for CITES, more species would have been extinct.

[yctan118]

Originally Posted by boonleng

if the guy just took 1/2 cuttings for his own collection or for the survival of the species or for whatever reason.. then I dont mind coz sometime I oso taking plants cuttings home, but taking a big bag of the same species that would be too much.
If he want to distribute the species to friends, harvesting from the wild would be a wrong way to do it, propagation should be the correct way.

I agree with BL. If everyone use this excuse and cut a big bag... what will happen? Dont forget that in this big bag, how many of them will die during the transition period before plants are being given to the respective person.

Hate those who like to sapu and even worst if they make $$$ out from it...
low life.

Kudos to BL who is so alert and quick in action to take a picture of his car.

[yctan118]

Want to add another point.
The joy for us to see Neps and any plants in-situ is way beyond what i can describe to you now.
We can not stopped development from destroying natural sites but at least we can stop ourselves and our friends from simply cutting a big bag on any given day....

This is a way we could "give" back something to our mother nature.

[David]

The person in the picture of the first post taken by boonleng has spoken to me. He could not reply to these allegations against him as he could not write in English very well and is not familiar with the forum. He speaks mainly Chinese dialects. He has only recently found out about this thread.

He told me he did not take any plants from that site, only pitchers as he wanted to preserve them. He appreciates boonleng's concerns for the plants and said that if he was asked to show what he had in the plastic bag, he would gladly show it to prove that it is not plants in there, but just the pitchers of the Nepenthes plant.

I have removed the picture of his car in the first post.

[marvin1997]

Oh sorry for doubting you.....

[arvin555]

Wow David you tracked down the person? cool!!

In defense to Boonleng I wouldn't go up to a guy who I think is poaching and ask to see what he has inside the bag.

Then again, may I quote what you quoted David in a post:

"Ok, I won't give my comment on this but will just quote the law. The law states that "no plant or part of the plant is to be removed without a plant collection permit"."

Pitchers are part of the plant

However for us at least, the plant should live on and make new pitchers so it is not as bad as uprooting the plant or doing lots of cuttings.

I wonder how he preserves them.

TTFN
Arvin